Feb 4, 2007

Self defense & self defense


"Iranian nuclear scientist assassinated by Mossad."
 
Check following links; On Haaretz, or The Sunday Times
 
So, let us IMAGINE what may happen in next few days, let us just IMAGINE, just IMAGINE because no thing will happen, but just IMAGINE.
 
Let us imagine that Iran attacked Israel considering killing an important scientist like this scientist enough for attacking Israel by their fighters and to invade it, let us imagine that it said that it's just following the right of 'SELF-DEFENCE', let us imagine that Iran destroyed many and many habitation Israeli buildings, let us imagine that Iran killed hundreds of babies, children, woman, old men, old women and civilians, let us imagine that it destroyed many vital roads and bridges, let us imagine that it destroyed Electrical and Water stations,   Let us just imagine that this happened, let us imagine then how the international re-action towards these attacks which Iran called 'SELF-DEFENCE',  I imagine that like that; EU will condemn so severely what Iran did and may send in the next day supplies for Israel, CS will condemn so severely what Iran did and a resolution will be declared the same day to order Iran to stop these attacks, as for America it will condemn so severely what Iran did and the same day food, medical supplies will reach Israel beside F16, Phantoms, Anti armour missiles,...etc to defend itself.
 
That's the imagination, but what about what really happened?!!!!
 
All of us know it, when Hizbullah arrested two Israeli soldiers to exchange by Muslims kidnapped in Israeli prisons, Israel attacked Lebanese lands killing hundreds of children, hundreds of women, hundreds of ....  all of us know, like all of us know the international re-action towards Israeli attacks against Lebanon, they didn't let Israel to say that it's 'SELF-DEFENCE' but they all shouted that killing children and destroying infrastructure in Lebanon is 'SELF-DEFENCE', and we know also how many days it took for declaring a resolution from this CS, Americans sent food and medical supplies and many weapons for Lebanon to defend its children and .... oh sorry... I mean Americans sent smart rockets for Israel to continue 'DEFENDING ITSELF' which was actually killing innocents and destroying their homes.
 
So, the question is; why this bias towards Israel from America and EU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

15 comments:

Ahmedinajad said...

Dear Sir,

The following issue can destroy ISLAM or ISRAEL; study it thoroughly to see if there is any truth to it.

READ THE FOLLOWING PASSAGES FROM THE BIBLE AS IT HAS IMPLICATIONS ON THE WAR AGAINST TERROR/ISLAM and the claim of Israel that god gave them the land. If the child is an infant than the Judeo-Christian version becomes null and void and we are wasting our time and resources i.e. we could save trillions of dollars and create a more peaceful world rather than fighting against Islam the religion of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them all).

The COVENANT with Abraham and his DESCENDANTS is central to JUDAISM/CHRISTIANITY/ISLAM.

Please note this is not a competition between faiths but an attempt to decipher fact from fiction.

Genesis 21:14 Contemporary English version se below link

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=GENESIS%2021;&version=46;

Early the next morning Abraham gave Hagar an animal skin full of water and some bread. Then he put the boy on her shoulder and sent them away.

GENESIS 16:16
And Hagar bore Abram a son; and Abram called the name of his son, whom Hagar bore, Ish’mael. Abram was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore Ish’mael to Abram.
GENESIS 21:5
Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him.

At Genesis 22 Abraham had only 2 sons others came later. The Quran mentions that it was Ishmael that was sacrificed hence the reference in genesis 22:2 your only son can only mean someone has substituted Ishmael names for Isaac!!

BY DOING SOME KINDERGARTEN ARITHMATIC USING ARABIC NUMBERS (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10)
NOT ROMAN NUMERALS (I, II, III,IV,V,VI,VII,VIII,IX,X) NB no concept of zero in roman numerals.

100 years old – 86 years old = 14 ADD 3 YEARS FOR ISSAC’S WEANING

THAT WOULD MAKE ISHMAEL 17 YEARS OLD IN GENESIS 21:14-21
BUT IT IS A DESCRIPTION OF AN INFANT.

Carefully read several times the above passage and then tell me the mental picture you get between the mother child interactions what is the age of the child. If the mental picture is that of a 17 year old child being carried on the shoulder of his mother, being physically placed in the bush, crying like a baby, mother having to give him water to drink, than the Islamic viewpoint is null and void. Why is there no verbal communications between mother and (17 YEAR OLD) child?

GENESIS: 21:14 - 21
So Abraham rose early in the morning, and took bread and a skin of water, and gave it to Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, along with the (17 YEAR OLD) child, and sent her away. And she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beer-Sheba. When the water in the skin was gone, she cast the (17 YEAR OLD) child under one of the bushes. Then she went, and sat down over against him a good way off, about the distance of a bowshot; for she said, “Let me not look upon the death of the (17 YEAR OLD) child.” And as she sat over against him, the (17 YEAR OLD) child lifted up his voice and wept. And God heard the voice of the (17 YEAR OLD) lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven, and said to her, “What troubles you, Hagar? Fear not; for God has heard the voice of the (17 YEAR OLD) lad where he is. Arise, lift up the (17 YEAR OLD) lad, and hold him fast with your hand; for I will make him a great nation.” Then God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the skin with water, and gave the (17 YEAR OLD) lad a drink. And God was with the (17 YEAR OLD) lad, and he grew up; he lived in the wilderness, and became an expert with the bow. He lived in the wilderness of Paran; and his mother took a wife for him from the land of Egypt.


The age of Ishmael at this stage is crucial to the Abrahamic faiths. If he is 17 than the JUDEO/CHRISTIAN point of view about the Abrahamic covenant is correct. This has devastating theological consequences of unimaginable proportions.

This makes the conflict between Ishmael and Isaac and there descendants a work of fiction. I would strongly suggest it is clear cut case of racial discrimination and nothing to do with god almighty. The scribes have deliberately tried to make Isaac the only son and legitimate heir to the throne of Abraham??

Please can you rationally explain this anomaly?

I have asked many persons including my nephews and nieces - unbiased minds with no religious backgrounds but with reasonable command of the English language about this passage and they all agree that the child in the passage is an infant.
AS THE DESCRIPTION OF ISHMAEL IN GENESIS 21:14-21 IS THAT OF AN INFANT IT CAN BE ASSUMED SOMEONE HAS MOVED THIS PASSAGE FROM AN EARLIER PART OF SCRIPTURE!!! AND HAVE GOT THERE KNICKERS IN A TWIST.

For background info on the future religion of mankind see the following websites:

http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/Muhammad_Bible.HTM
(MUHAMMAD IN THE BIBLE)
http://bible.islamicweb.com/
http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,31200-galloway_060806,00.html
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696
(ISRAELI HOLOCAUST AND WAR CRIMES)
http://ifamericansknew.com/
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MB_BQS/default.htm
(BIBLE, QURAN and SCIENCE)
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/ ANTI-WAR
http://www.harunyahya.com/
(EVOLUTION DECEIPT)
http://www.barnabas.net/
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm
http://www.islamicity.com/
http://www.islamonline.net/english/index.shtml
http://www.islamalways.com/

HOLY QURAN CHAPTER 37 verses 101 - 122

101. So We gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear.

102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"

103. So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah., and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),

104. We called out to him "O Abraham!

105. "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.

106. For this was obviously a trial-

107. And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:

108. And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times:

109. "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"

110. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.

111. For he was one of our believing Servants.

112. And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.

113. We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to their own souls.

114. Again (of old) We bestowed Our favour on Moses and Aaron,

115. And We delivered them and their people from (their) Great Calamity;

116. And We helped them, so they overcame (their troubles);

117. And We gave them the Book which helps to make things clear;

118. And We guided them to the Straight Way.

119. And We left (this blessing) for them among generations (to come) in later times:

120. "Peace and salutation to Moses and Aaron!"

121. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.

122. For they were two of our believing Servants.

ISHMAEL IS THE FIRST BORN AND GOOD NEWS OF ISSAC DOES NOT APPEAR UNTIL AFTER THE SACRIFICE?????

Therefore the claim that god gave the land to Israel is destroyed without the need of any WMD’s.




HADITH

Volume 4, Book 55, Number 583:
Narrated Ibn Abbas:
The first lady to use a girdle was the mother of Ishmael. She used a girdle so that she might hide her tracks from Sarah. Abraham brought her and her son Ishmael while she was suckling him, to a place near the Ka'ba under a tree on the spot of Zam-zam, at the highest place in the mosque. During those days there was nobody in Mecca, nor was there any water So he made them sit over there and placed near them a leather bag containing some dates, and a small water-skin containing some water, and set out homeward. Ishmael's mother followed him saying, "O Abraham! Where are you going, leaving us in this valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy, nor is there anything (to enjoy)?" She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her Then she asked him, "Has Allah ordered you to do so?" He said, "Yes." She said, "Then He will not neglect us," and returned while Abraham proceeded onwards, and on reaching the Thaniya where they could not see him, he faced the Ka'ba, and raising both hands, invoked Allah saying the following prayers:
'O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring dwell in a valley without cultivation, by Your Sacred House (Kaba at Mecca) in order, O our Lord, that they may offer prayer perfectly. So fill some hearts among men with love towards them, and (O Allah) provide them with fruits, so that they may give thanks.' (14.37) Ishmael's mother went on suckling Ishmael and drinking from the water (she had).
When the water in the water-skin had all been used up, she became thirsty and her child also became thirsty. She started looking at him (i.e. Ishmael) tossing in agony; She left him, for she could not endure looking at him, and found that the mountain of Safa was the nearest mountain to her on that land. She stood on it and started looking at the valley keenly so that she might see somebody, but she could not see anybody. Then she descended from Safa and when she reached the valley, she tucked up her robe and ran in the valley like a person in distress and trouble, till she crossed the valley and reached the Marwa mountain where she stood and started looking, expecting to see somebody, but she could not see anybody. She repeated that (running between Safa and Marwa) seven times."
The Prophet said, "This is the source of the tradition of the walking of people between them (i.e. Safa and Marwa). When she reached the Marwa (for the last time) she heard a voice and she asked herself to be quiet and listened attentively. She heard the voice again and said, 'O, (whoever you may be)! You have made me hear your voice; have you got something to help me?" And behold! She saw an angel at the place of Zam-zam, digging the earth with his heel (or his wing), till water flowed from that place. She started to make something like a basin around it, using her hand in this way, and started filling her water-skin with water with her hands, and the water was flowing out after she had scooped some of it."
The Prophet added, "May Allah bestow Mercy on Ishmael's mother! Had she let the Zam-zam (flow without trying to control it) (or had she not scooped from that water) (to fill her water-skin), Zam-zam would have been a stream flowing on the surface of the earth." The Prophet further added, "Then she drank (water) and suckled her child. The angel said to her, 'Don't be afraid of being neglected, for this is the House of Allah which will be built by this boy and his father, and Allah never neglects His people.' The House (i.e. Kaba) at that time was on a high place resembling a hillock, and when torrents came, they flowed to its right and left. She lived in that way till some people from the tribe of Jurhum or a family from Jurhum passed by her and her child, as they (i.e. the Jurhum people) were coming through the way of Kada'. They landed in the lower part of Mecca where they saw a bird that had the habit of flying around water and not leaving it. They said, 'This bird must be flying around water, though we know that there is no water in this valley.' They sent one or two messengers who discovered the source of water, and returned to inform them of the water. So, they all came (towards the water)." The Prophet added, "Ishmael's mother was sitting near the water. They asked her, 'Do you allow us to stay with you?" She replied, 'Yes, but you will have no right to possess the water.' They agreed to that." The Prophet further said, "Ishmael's mother was pleased with the whole situation as she used to love to enjoy the company of the people. So, they settled there, and later on they sent for their families who came and settled with them so that some families became permanent residents there. The child (i.e. Ishmael) grew up and learnt Arabic from them and (his virtues) caused them to love and admire him as he grew up, and when he reached the age of puberty they made him marry a woman from amongst them.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamad Fadly...

Thank you for responding to our
Reality Weblog.

I appreciate your Studies of Law.

This old man believes that the Rule
of Law, when equally applied to All of the World's Citizens, are man's best hope to eventually result in a Peaceful, productive life for all populations. Education
of the masses is the long-time solution. Not the wild Claims of Infallibility for One Notion, One Belief, One Faith.

Sunni & Shi'a kill each other. Hamas & Fatah kill each other. Do you suspect that somethings wrong with this theory?

Good For You!

When Cartoons teach babies to Hate
before they can read, that Jews are
Pigs & Monkeys, it's a cruel hoax on those muslim children. When a society has "Honor Killings" it's a hint that something is very wrong. When they treat women no better than the
family goat, something is wrong with that culture! Reserve Your Judgement. Allow your Allah to speak to your mind and heart.

Learn to be skeptical of all Pious
Claims. There are many False Prophets in the history of religions. Sun God? Moon God? Gods
of Fire & Water? The Mountain God Spitting Fire! All are mighty, but where is the God of Love & Kindness. Jehovah, Allah, or Brahma
all have their believers early in man's history. Today, these Gods Are Mute, and venal leaders are quick to speak for them!

Unfortunately, there is Greed for Money, for Religious Power, for Political Power, that must be dealt with. Legislative Balance, and Inherent Human Kindness is most needed to contain & harness
the over-zealous nature of pious, ambitious, venal humans.

Sadly, We are a long way from achieving a lasting Peace, when ambitious men that Claim "Devine Prerogatives" and Rule through Fear
have their way. They Cut Off Heads & Rule With Fear!

There is "Defensive Jihad" which is meant to protect the land we occupy. (Reasonable).

There is "Offensive Jihad" which declares that only we "holy ones" deserve to live! All others must convert to Our Notions of a Creator, or be called "Kafir". These fools must DIE!

Our Madhi will return (After Nuke Armegeddon), then Sharia will Rule The World. The fact that hundreds of millions of people must die to fulfill our prophesy, should not concern "Our" People.

This is the sadness of religious zealots. They ignore mass suffering to protect their Ancient Doctrine. It's madness.

Historical and Religious Scholars In Many Nations Know The Truth.

Ask Iranian Scholars that are in hiding. Or, put your trust in Ahmadinejad. He says, like so many
others, that He Has Total Truth! More than All Scientists, all of the Astronomers, all of the Physicists & Geologists. Believe in Him...or Die! Rubbish!

Little Satan? Big Satan? More Trash! Their are good & bad people in every nation...Every Nation! reb

www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Here we have Seven pages of
Ahmadinejad...

Two pages of Logic & Reason. You Should Print Them, Study Them.

Determine for yourself. Which has more Goodwill for all mankind? Is it the younger, agressive & threatening great leader that would like to to wipe his blood brother "Off The Map"...

Or an Old Fellow that would love to see all cultures everywhere to have the opportunity to prosper, educate their children, pursue happiness without fear?

The Seeds of Abraham live in both
traditions. The Rabbi & Imam have much to discuss...away from the Camera & Microphone. Peace On Earth, Goodwill For All Mankind. Let Them Sit, and Reason Together. reb

Mohamed said...

Mr. Snake Hunter,

Islam invites to unity between all religions!!! Did you know that before?!!!! Qur'an(Holy Book of Islam) says so claerly that the three religions are all one nation. Here you are the translation of verses;

" And verily this Brotherhood of yours is a single Brotherhood, and I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore fear Me (and no other)." 23:52

And also that's our belief that Moses and Jesus are all prophets sent by Allah, and without this belief we aren't Muslims.

So that's the invitation for unity among all nations, becasue we are all brothers, and if you have the translation of Qur'an you can notice that this verse comes after talking about Prophets Moses and Jesus message. The sign is clear.

If you're asking if I see that there is a suspiciuos thing about Hamas and Fatah, Sunna and Shi'a. Yes, sure there is a suspicious thing, don't you see that both Hamas and Fatah have the same goal which is the freedom of Palastinians, don't you see that Sunna and Shi'a lived for hundreds of years together in Iraq in peace and cooperation?!!! So what changed?!!! Do you know who answered this question?!!! It's Russia, they said that there is outer elements behide this conflict between Hamas and Fatah. As for Iraq, I believe that Americans are the ones who are behind it, that's because "United they stand, divided they fall" and "Divide and you'll prevail". In a word, Americans want to divide Iraqis like a Fedralic state to prevail, and the reason is so simply is Iraqi Gas. That's my point of view.

That's a wrong idea that we are against Jews, which may some Muslims have, the right fact is that we are against murdering and stealing, and all of us know what Zionists did (and still) in Palestine, they stole the Palestinian land and the world supported them to declar their own state in 1948, and since then they are killing children and innocents. So we're against Zionists not Jews, and we won't give up till we get back our land, or I'm mistaken.

I really appreciate your dividing bewteen Defensive and Offensive Jihad, the first one is the one which Islamic religion orders us to make, but the other isn't Islamic at all, but it's created by Media and misunderstood.

Thanks for replying me,

Peace,

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed,

You are very kind and sincere in
your belief, of that I have no
doubt. I am filled with a new hope
that perhaps men of Goodwill can reach an accord, if it is not already too late.

Mature, logical humans do not wish
to wipe any people "off the map".

a) Do you personally believe in the
grim 12th Imam (Madhi) Prophesy?

b) Do you personally believe that all must convert to Islam, and be forced to accept Sharia?

c) Islam, as I understand it, believe both Moses & Jesus were equal, in the Islamic viewpoint?

Do you think that one is superior to the other? (An important question. I would appreciate a
full answer.

Thank you! Peace & Goodwill. reb

The Loop Garoo Kid said...

Mohamed,

Just a few points, kid, inasmuch as my English is better than yours. Hezbollah did not arrest two Israeli soldiers. Hezbollah kidnapped 2 Israeli soldiers.

According to the American Heritage Dictionary, which I consider to be authoritative for American English, one definition of "arrest" is "To sieze and hold under authority of law."

"Kidnap" on the other hand is "To abduct and detain a person, often for ransom."

So ask yourself, did Hezbollah "arrest" the 2 Israeli soldiers on Israeli within Israel for specific crimes or did Hezbollah "kidnap" the 2 Israeli soldiers are are the soldiers being held for ransom?

With respect to Hamas and Fatah, you state "they have the same goal which is freedom for Palestinians." Perhaps, but will you admit that the freedom they wish to achieve is only through the destruction of Israel. Aren't the Palestinians free in Gaza?

As for Sunni and Shi'ia coexisting in Iraq with peace and cooperation, I suggest you read a little less scripture and a little more history. Modern Iraq has existed since the British mandate in 1920 and the 83 years between its birth and the overthrow of Saddam Hussein has been marked by assassination of Iraqi leaders and one dictatorship after another.

Please understand that I did not support the invasion of Iraq because what is happening now was perfectly foreseeable to any casual student of history.

Before the British mandate, Iraq was ruled by the Ottoman Turks from 1632 to 1918. It's easy to coexist when one is subject to the rule of empire.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

To follow that reasoning...

Two religions have complex ancient writings.

Both believe that Moses received his Ten Commandments from Creator God 'Jehovah'...or is it Allah?

God said, "Thou shalt not kiil"

If you or I had received this order
from the Creator of The Universe, we would follow it to the letter.
>>
Moses returned from the mountain, saw his people having a party, and worshipping a Golden Calf, and he ordered them killed! What manner of
man would so quickly disobey God? A holy prophet?

God disappears. Holy spokesmen appear to fill the void. Complexity
and division, and Holy arguments about who speaks for "God" now?

Jews & Muslims believe this fellow Moses is a Prophet? A "holy" human?

Something is wrong here!

The Bible is full of unjustifiable
Violence. Killings! Stonings of sinful women, according to the 'Law
of Moses'? Jesus rejects Mosaic Law, the stoning of the adultress. He said, "Go and sin no more".

Then the Quran appears, full of peace, love, charity for the poor and elderly, etc. Mohammed dies.

New spokesmen appear, eager to fill his shoes, assume his Power.

They have been killing, torturing,
and cutting off heads & hands, stoning the 'sinful' ones ever since those ancient times.

Today, Absolute Authority is claimed by Sunni & Shia. so they kill each other, in their violent lust for Control of a Billion people. Something is wrong here.

Where is the benevolence and love of a Just & All-wise Allah?

Where is the Peace on exhibit? War, hatred, violence we see in
great abundance, from "holy men".

Study History, then study Ancient Scripture. One without the other
is deadly. Some day you may thank
your God for the gift of Scepticism, and withholding your harsh judgement of others. reb

www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Mohamed said...

Welcome again Mr.Reb on my blog,

How many years Palestine is invaded and occupied?!!!
It's since 1948. Israel is against International law, I'm not meaning here its daily crimes against children and women and their homes as it's approved, but what I mean is the declaration of Israeli state, it's an occupier land, it stole the land, declared its own state, the land is for Palestininas, and that's our right and the right of Palestinians to get back the stolen land and to defend themselves against killers and invaders till we get it back and we will.

As for your questions;

Yes, if you mean Mahdi, I beleive in him as an Imam not a Prophet because Prophet Muhammad was the last, but I don't believe in him like Shia believe as a 12th Imam, I don't believe in the 12 Imam who are holy, inerrant and can do amazing things. He will come in the end of the world, and will reform the world.

I hope that all convert to Islam, because I see in it the best, but it's impossible, because people have different backgrounds, and may be biased not neutral.
'FORCED'?!!!
There is no force to accept Islam, Allah said in Qur'an; 'Let there be no compulsion in religion..' 2:256
And if you're forced to accept a thing without being convinced about being the best so then you lose your mind and your freedom.

Yes, both Prophets Moses and Jesus are equal in Islam. Actually it's really required in Islamic belief to believe in all Prophets and Messengers sent by Allah.

As for the last question, I didn't understand well what you mean but.. Islamic religion isn't just the message which Prophet Muhammad came by, neither Prophets Moses and Jesus, Islamic religion is the religion which all Prophets and all Messengers came by since Adam till Muhammad, so Prophet Moses's message is Islam, Prophet Jesus's message is Islam and Prophet Muahammad's message is Islam. This can be known from the meaning of Islam, it means 'submission to Allah', and all messages aims at to submit to Allah's orders.

I hope that I replied your questions.

I have a question for you as a Western man;

How your Media and politinans present the image of Palestinian issue, I mean that we see Israel in the East as an invader state since it has been declared, and that it's against internationl law, so how you see it?!!

Peace,

Mohamed said...

Kid,

Thanks for your comment on my blog,

Your English is better than me!!! What did you mean 'inasmuch'?!! Did you mean 'in as mush' ;)

Any way, I meant to mention that Hizbollah 'arrested' not 'kidnapped', the reason is so simply is kidnap means that it's illegal or an 'evil' thing, but arrest refers usually to a good thing and a noble aim. And that's right, Hizbollah wasn't wrong to arrest those soldiers, that's the ordinary way which they must follow, if you know about the history between Hizbollah and this Israel you can know that there were an exchange process between both of them in about 2002(as I remember) but Israel didn't complete the exchange process, it didn't applicate the deal with Hizbollah, so what should Hizbollah do, it must have a thing to negotiate on, and it choose to 'arrest' those soldiers to negotiate about, I don't think that it's the bad way. If you want to talk about the real evil, see what Israel did and call it 'Self Defense' and 'a normal Re-action', for arresting two soldiers it killed hundreds of children and civilians, demolished many and many habitation buildings, caused many injures, used weapons against International and humanical law, displaced third of Lebanese innocent people,..etc so what you call that?!!!

Yes, I know that the freedom of Palestinian people means the delete of Zionistic state. I don’t see a problem here. If a thief stole a precious thing from you, will you say; 'Oh no, I can't get it back from him as I will make him sad when I got it back', and the same if a group invaded your state and declared its own state on it, will you say; 'Oh, I won’t try to get back my land as getting back my land means the deleting of this state'?!!!!!!! I'm studying law, and I know and every one can simply know that the killer and the thief don't have a right except to be judged justly, and the fair judge in the Palestinian issue is that Palestinians have the complete right in their lands, and the complete right to defend themselves against killing their children, demolishing their homes and stealing their land.
You said; Aren't the Palestinians free in Gaza? No, Palestinians must be free on the whole Palestine, not this current Palestine, but Palestine before declaring the Israeli state.

Peace,

The Loop Garoo Kid said...

Mohamed,

I will respond more completely later. Although, I fear it will be my last posting. It is apparent from what you have published that your perspective of the world is not rational and accordingly, posing and posting arguments that demonstrate the specious nature of your philosophy would be as futile as shouting at the rain.

I will leave you temporaily with these two thoughts.

Your idea of history seem to dwell on the rather recent. You believe that a grave injustice was committed in 1948. Why do you not believe that a grave injustice was committed by the Romans who destroyed the Kingdom of Judea and dispersed the Jews?

The State of Israel is here to stay. Either you accept that fact and strive for peace or you don't. If you you don't, you had better find yourself a weapon and make peace with your god because you have begun to walk the path of self destruction from which you will not return. Or can you reconcile your desire for the destruction of Israel with your religion?

The Loop Garoo Kid said...

Dear Mohamed,

"With thy brave bearing should I be in love,
But thou art so fast mine enemy."

William Shakespeare

King Henry IV, Part II, Act V, Scene ii, lines 20-21

Mohamed, you are my enemy. reb, do you agree?

You are my enemy because your are opposed to all those things I hold dear and you would destroy them if you can, which, unfortunately for you, you cannot. Not in this lifetime.

I will take the liberty of speaking for reb. reb and I are Americans. By that, I mean we are citizens of the United States of America.

We do not consider ourselves Hatfields or McCoys or Bernsteins first. We consider ourselves Americans first.

We do not consider ourselves Catholics or Baptists or Jews first. We consider ourselves Americans first.

We do not consider ourselves Vermonters or Tennesseans or Californias first. We consider ourselves Americans first.

Patrick Henry, an eloquent patriot and attorney from our Revolutionary era said in a speech before the Continental Congress, "I am not a Virginian, but an American." Perhaps you are familiar with his most famous speech in which he concluded: "Is life so dear and peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death."

I advise you of these things so as to inform you of why democracy functions well in America and may not in divers other locales. Democracy works in the United States because its citizens' primary loyalty lies not to their families; not to their clans or their tribes; not to their individual states but to their institutions of government.

The blueprint of our government is the Constitution whose strength and flexibility has allowed it to persevere for 218 years.

This document is not as old as the Quran, but whatever its merits, has the Quran ever provided a framework for the governance of a country that has allowed its adherents to live in liberty for 218 years? I listen and hear amongst some Muslims a call for a return to the Caliphate.

A Caliphate by necessity requires a Caliph and we Americans may like Kings and Princes individually. We don't wish to be ruled by one.

I might also recommend the Bill of Rights, particularly The First Amendment, which is one of reb's favorites. It states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise therof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

When reb fought his way north through Italy as a member of the 10th Mountain Division, a fighting unit still honored in memory after more than 60 years, I do not know if he thought: "I am here fighting for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights," but that was what he was doing.

Now, I will no longer presume to speak for reb, but only for myself.

You are my enemy, Mohamed, inter alia, because yous state about yourself first and foremost: " I am a Muslim before being an Egyptian, I love my religion so much..."

I am sensitive to all that implies and you need not quote scripture about tolerance, because that statement connotes that your philosophy is inimical to my country which has allowed me the freedom and opportunity to be what I am-- the Constitution and the First Amendment becuse America is a nation of laws.

Let me digress for a minute and ask, what is Hezbollah? Is Hezbollah a nation state? Does Hezbollah have a seat at the United Nations? Is Hezbollah recognized as a sovereign state by all of the nations of the world?; by any of the nations of the world except perhaps Iran?

If Hezbollah is not a sovereign nation, how can Hebollah have laws that should be recognized by other nation states.

Hear and attend, Mohamed. We as citizens of a sovereign nation state; we as citizens of the sovereign nation state of the United States of America, a nation of laws, do not recognize Hezbollah as group endowed with any rights to act as a nation would. So when Hezbollah siezes two citizens of a sovereign nation state on the soil of that sovereign nation state. It is not a lawful "arrest" it is a "crime" and the people whp perpetrated that crime are criminals and in this instance terrorists.

If you are unwulling or unable to recognize this simple distinction than I suggest you do yourself and your prospective clients a favor and study a subject other than law.

You may argue and discuss scripture--and I use that word in its broadest sense--with reb if you like. Scripture may or may not be divine law. I should advise you that I am well versed in the study and practice of law and I will not brook your sophomoric specious and sophistic arguments such as the one you propounded regarding the rights of Palestinians.

I digress again, but let me ask you Mohamed, do you support terrorism? Should you chose to answer, please do respond by by arguing: "Israel bombed Lebanon..." or the United Staes invaded Iraq..." because this will not answer the question. The question is, "Do you, Mohamed, Muslimboy07, support terrorism.

As I wrote earlier, the state of Israel is here to stay. Palestinians may chose to live there or not. I have to advise you of two things. The Palestians would do well to consider the plight of Cubans who fled Castro's regime.

Castro will die, probably sooner rather than later. When he does, the Cuban revolution's days are numbered. That type of Socialism/Communism does not work. Look at the USSR and Eastern Europe. If not for being propped up by Hugo Chavez, the end of the revolution would come sooner but Mr. Chavez is rathered enormred with the sound of his own voice.

But whatever happens, the Cubans who left Cuba will never return to the way things were. Whatever happens in Palestine, things will never go back to the way things were before 1948.

Deal with Mohamed.

The second thing is that many, perhaps most, westerners have little or no confidence in the Palestinians ability to govern themselves with any kind of justice and efficiency. Look at Gaza, Mohamed. Fatah and Hamas are incapable of governing. Do yo think that if the Jews in Israel disappeared forever at 7:00 tonight, the Palestinians would cease killing one another? I would appreciate your opinion in that regard.

Perhaps this is farewell Mohamed.
I am too old to meet you on a battle field. That task, should it prove necessary, will be relegated to my children and their generation.

But unless you reconsider your philosophy then you may rest assured that in all likelihood, you will be imprisoned or executed long before any conflict between nations occurs.

You see, if you study history, you will discover that people who love God more than their country frequently come to very nasty ends.
It is ultima ration regnum.

You are my enemy< mohamed, and I do not think you widh for peace. May you be granted mercy.

Mohamed said...

Thanks kid for your new comments, very soon I'll try to reply you in a separated post.

Mohamed

Anonymous said...

Amedinajad:

Doesn't this all boil down to the birthright of legitimate sons vs. illegitimate? Sara was Abraham's half-sister (same father, different mothers) and his legal wife. Hagar was an Egyptian slave of theirs. When Sara saw that Hagar's son was a threat to her son Isaac, she demanded of Abraham that he get rid of Hagar and her son Ishmael. Sara could not have forced Abraham to leave Hagar and her son in the wilderness if she did not have the legal right to demand it of him, and the Lord told Abraham to obey. Hagar accepted the Lord's decision too.

We will never know how old each son was when God ordered Abraham to sacrifice his only son--meaning his only legitimate son. The ages and dates in the translated bibles don't make sense). Children were nursed (wsuckled) for as many as seven years in those days especially when a child was the only one. Both children were able to speak, so neither was an infant as we think of an infant today.

So, the ages of the children don't matter at all. Isaac was his legitimate son--his only son---in the eyes of the Lord and in the eyes of Abraham's community. His legal wife Sara held all the cards, so her son did also. The son of the slave Hagar, no matter how much Abraham loved him too, had not the same rights. Anyway, both men were at their father's funeral and both men became fathers of great nations. That means that each knew his place, and no protestations will change that.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA--

Anonymous said...

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Mohamed said...

Anonymous,

The place of this rubbish isn't here.

All opinions are welcomed, but only whenever they are provided by the civilzed way, not the way of barbaric men who only knows the way of using dirty reviles, for the simple reason that they have no logic.

You are chicken to revile as anonymous.

A lesson which you must learn; reviles don't make any thing, you won't gain any benefit, and the reviled person won't be hurted.

I think that the philosophy of those who revile is that they have no logic, they have a disease in their self.