Jul 17, 2009

Important Fatwa About Terrorism

One confusing question for non-Muslims about Islam is;
When most of the violent acts against innocents are committed by the name of Islam, what does Islam itself say about such acts and killing innocent civilians and bombing crowded civil places?
Do Islam justify these things? OR does it refuse them?
Do all Muslims accept these attacks against innocents? OR they consider them as barbaric acts?
If a terrorist bombing a crowded train station is sending a message of hatred, so What is the message of other Muslims?

American Fiqh Council has issued a very important Fatwa about terrorist attacks. It's very important to read it to understand what Muslim scholars say about terrorist attacks against innocents, and to figure out what is running in the minds of the majority of Muslims.

"In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful


The Fiqh Council of North America wishes to reaffirm Islam's absolute condemnation of terrorism and religious extremism.

Islam strictly condemns religious extremism and the use of violence against innocent lives.
There is no justification in Islam for extremism or terrorism. Targeting civilians' life and property through suicide bombings or any other method of attack is haram – or forbidden - and those who commit these barbaric acts are criminals, not "martyrs."

The Qur'an, Islam's revealed text, states: "Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind."
(Qur'an, 5:32)

Prophet Muhammad said there is no excuse for committing unjust acts: "Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong (even) if they do evil." (Al-Tirmidhi)

God mandates moderation in faith and in all aspects of life when He states in the Qur'an: "We made you to be a community of the middle way, so that (with the example of your lives) you might bear witness to the truth before all mankind." (Qur'an, 2:143)

In another verse, God explains our duties as human beings when he says: "Let there arise from among you a band of people who invite to righteousness, and enjoin good and forbid
(Qur'an, 3:104)

Islam teaches us to act in a caring manner to all of God's creation. The Prophet Muhammad, who is described in the Qur'an as "a mercy to the worlds" said: "All creation is the family of God, and the person most beloved by God (is the one) who is kind and caring toward His family."

In the light of the teachings of the Qur'an and Sunnah we clearly and strongly state:

1. All acts of terrorism targeting civilians are haram (forbidden) in Islam.
2. It is haram for a Muslim to cooperate with any individual or group that is involved in any act of terrorism or violence.
3. It is the civic and religious duty of Muslims to cooperate with law enforcement authorities to protect the lives of all civilians.

We issue this fatwa following the guidance of our scripture, the Qur'an, and the teachings of
our Prophet Muhammad – peace be upon him. We urge all people to resolve all conflicts in just and peaceful manners.

We pray for the defeat of extremism and terrorism. We pray for the safety and security of our country, the United States, and its people. We pray for the safety and security of all
inhabitants of our planet. We pray that interfaith harmony and cooperation prevail both in the United States and all around the globe."




Mohamed said...

I was reading an article on IslamOnLine.com (Arabic Edition) entitled; "A mercy prophet, or a Terror prophet?!!!"

I liked some parts of it. I think they will be very useful.

After Ohod battle with the Arab pagans (the tribe of the prophet), when many Muslims have been killed, the prophet's uncle "Hamza" was killed, the prophet's tooth was broken, his head was severely injured. The fellows of the prophet asked the prophet; "Won't you curse them?" Prophet Muhammad answered; "I wasn't sent by Allah to ask for curses against others, instead I was sent by Allah as mercy for Mankind. O Allah, guide my people because they are men without knowledge."

After the opening of Mecca city, when the prophet became in the position of power unto the people of Mecca, those who tortured the new Muslims by the most horrible ways (including; wiping, leaving them under the hot sun of Arabian Peninsula, putting heavy rocks on their chests, pulling them on the hot sands, etc), killed them and took their money, what did the prophet do to them?
He said; "Go, you're free."

In the same day of opening Mecca, Umayr Ibn Wahb came to the prophet and asked him to forgive his cousin Safwan Ibn Umayya, one of the most enemies of Islam. Umayr said; "O prophet of God, Safwan is a master in his people, and he ran away of you to throw himself in the sea. Please give him asylum." The prophet answered; "I gave it to him." When Umayr went to Safwan and told him about that, Safwan answered; "But I'm afraid on myself!" Umayr said; "He's more kind and generous than that."
When they went back together to the prophet, Safwan said to the prophet; "This man is claiming that you gave me asylum." The prophet answered; "He's truthful!" Safwan said; "Then give me a period of 2 months to think if to convert Islam or not." The prophet answered; "No, you got 4 months."

I choose these parts to translate to refute the claims that Muslims practiced mercy against non-Muslims only when they were weak, but when they had the power they showed the other face!!
These claims are false, and these previous stories can tell us that. The prophet had the power to punish Mecca people, and no one would blame him, because they tortured Muslims, but instead he made all of them free.
A thing that reveals that mercy is the basis that Muslims believed in and practiced.

The other story reveals the same thing. It's an apparent application of the verse; "Let there be no compulsion in religion: .. " 2: 256


The Two Faces Of Islam...

The "moderates" dreaming of Peace...

and yesterday, two terrorists suicide-bombing two luxury hotels in Jakarta, Indonesia, killing 8, wounding fifty, while others in Iran...dream of possessing the A-bomb!

Yes! It's Mercy Vs Terrorism.


Mohamed said...

Let me please correct you Mr. reb..
It's not the "Two faces of Islam", Islam has only one face, The Face Of Mercy.

"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other) .." 49:13

"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just." 60:8

"And they feed, for the love of Allah, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive,-" 76:8

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, .." 8:60

"If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, .." 9:6

So, you can say instead the two sections of Muslims;
The Extremist Minority who use Islam to justify their horrible acts against innocents
The Merciful Majority who really understand Islam.

With every bomb blown up in a market or a hotel, we Muslims are together with the rest of the world against that barbarism.


When the innocent victims of the Jihad Warriors die, or a suicide bomber inflicts multiple injury and death in diverse places around the world each year, for a thousand years, and their families suffer because of a grim "holy war", it would be difficult to persuade them that the peaceful phrases in an ancient religious book has any meaningful significance...for them.

The muslim apostate, before he loses his head, or the female that faces the judgement of stoning, must surely see...two faces.

After the recent elections in Iran, thousands of young men & women seen protesting in the streets of big cities across that country, they must also see...two faces.

When Hamas and Fatah kill each other...Again It's Always Two Faces, Two Paths; It's Mercy vs Terrorism.




Should we have additional comment/debate on Muslim Women's Rights & Restrictions, or should we move on to the complex subject of...


Who should begin Phase III? (your choice, this time).



Mohamed - Because of the slight delay, it occured to me that perhaps the subject of Palestine is so very complex, you may need more time than the other subjects already covered in Phase I and II.

Would you prefer to give us a brief
(Phase III) summary of Shari'a Law, (a) when it began, and (b) if additional amendments (additions) are permitted as times, & future events might require (?)

Our U.S. Constitution was written to allow more amendments as time passes. Thank you for any answers
to these important questions. reb



Why The Delay? reb


To my friend, Mohamed,

(see S/H 'Memorial Parade' (post),
FIRST, I believe I owe my friend Mohamed my sincere and profound apology.

I had naively thought that I could control a religious discussion with a balance of kindness & careful diplomacy, since this discussion has the potential to evolve into the most fruitful and enlightening discussion on the blog-o-sphere. (I was apparently overly optimistic.)

The Opening Statements began on June 18th, and ended on July 19-20 with Mr "A".

Those fond hopes of this editor now appear to have hit a stone wall.

Although the "Anonymous Mr "A" has clearly displayed an intimate knowledge of the sadness, violence & chronic dischordance in the MiddleEast, the ancient clashing of cultures with its concurrent violence on our television screens (in the Holy Land) provides the world's viewers an often ghastly sight. Gaza is just one example.

Mr "A"s amazing storehouse of Quranic Chapter & Verse has been inpressive. However...

the abrupt wording Mr "A" has chosen has apparently violated the sensitive nature and deep belief-structure of my friend Mohamed Fadly. To say that I am "saddened and disappointed" would be a gross
I'll have more to say on this subject after I've had a chance to
research a few historical dates.

Stand by, please. reb



Please allow me to explain something...

In Any Debate, The Two Participants
Should Know That If One Of These Men...Resort To "Reviles & Name-Calling...And Stupid Insults", And Fail To See the Value Of Fact-Based
Evidences...The Viewers May Then Frown, And Switch Sides!

Always Maintain Your Dignity, IF you wish to impress the audience!

We Have 126 Printed Pages Permanently Recorded On This Blog.

So Keep Your Cool, Through Each Stage Of The Discussion. Don't Allow the Other Fellow To Rattle You...Stay With The Hard Evidences, And "The Truth, As You See It."

Old Motto:
"Sticks & Stones May Break My Bones, But Vile Names Can Never Hurt Me!"




On 7/31/2009 > You have decided to terminate the debate between yourself and Amillenialist with these words...

"I decided to quit that 'Wrestling Circuit'..."

This is very disappointing to me personally for the following reasons:

For over a year, we have had very fruitful discussions re Islam, including your favorite subject > Palestine.

I've tried very hard to reach Phase III, where you could have discussed every detail (a) of Zionism, (b) every detail of the perceived "illegal occupation" of Palestine, also (c) the location and dates (these names & dates are still a mystery to me) of perceived atrocities committed by the 'Zionist Invaders' (Israeli)...

However, you have allowed Mr "A" to side-track you, away from the Main Issue, PALESTINE.

I Now Suggest...that you record your final statement on the above subjects before we close this discussion.

Respectfully, reb


Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

Let me please be very clear, sincere and direct with you..

When I accepted your invitation to start the discussion on your blog with Amillenilaist, I din't accept it hoping that Amillenilaist would listen to the talk of mind and logic, I tried him before. But the main reason, and I'm very honest in that, was you!

I can understand that you're an American living in a non-Muslim community, with no direct touch with Muslims, and no knowledge about Islamic culture and beliefs. That's why I made my blog, to let the world know what I knew about that great religion.
The religion of Islam is internationally misunderstood, and that's an undiscussable fact, there are various reasons for that misunderstanding, like;
a) the use of extremists of Islamic texts out of their context to justify attacking innocents,
b) the loud voice of a bomb, when a peace act can hardly be heard,
c) the negativity of many Muslims in clarifying the teachings of Islam to the peoples of the West.
So it's our duty as Muslims to reveal the truth of Islam, not what the extremists do, not what is shown in Media, but the core of that religion, the teachings that prophet Muhammad invited to and practiced.

So, it wasn't about convincing or not convincing Amillenialist, I was sure that no thing would convince him even the logic, but it was about allowing you and your blog visitors to listen to both sides; the side against Islam, and the side beside Islam, and you judge by yourselves. It was about you, those who just see the news and listen to accusations, but never read the Qur'an, or read about the life of the prophet written by Muslims or moderate non-Muslims, those who never dealt with a Muslim face-to-face and realized the teachings of Islam through him.
It's a chance for you to have an idea about the texts used by extremists to justify their attacks against innocents, and used by those who want to defame Islam,
and beside that listening to and thinking about the clarifications of these texts, and what is hided by those who aim at defaming Islam, and what prophet Islam really did and practiced. Full view, not partial.

Maybe that's what made JJ family to say that they learnt from following the discussion, more than they hear in the news.

Mr. reb,

I clarified everything and hided nothing.

If you agreed to complete the discussion that way, and by these targets, so I'd happily accept to make a fruitful discussion. If not, just tell me and it won't affect our friendship.

A last request from a friend to a friend..
Before deciding if to make the discussion or not, I would like that you watch the following video of Yusuf Estes, a former Christian priest who converted to Islam in 1991, and turned into a Muslim preacher.




Mohamed, In our one-to-one personal discussions I believe we have achieved a high degree of respect for each other; you are a no-nonsense, very bright young man.

I fully understand that your intense training for a dozen years under the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood Masters has emplanted a deep faith in Islam, with the deep urge to prosyletize; that's not new among people of faith!

In the U.S. I have many times in my life, had serious young fellows at my door, intent on giving me the "blessings" of LDS, Mormonism.

Another religion that goes door-to-door is Jehovah' Witnesses. They too, are tireless proselytizers of religious notions.

If they tried it in Saudi Arabia, they would be in serious trouble!

I honestly convey skepticism, not hatred, or a desire to punish or kill them. It's their training that has deluded them, not a hard look at all the other faiths.
You do understand that in hosting a debate between two scholarly men,
I must remain fair, balanced, and nuetral...for the discussion to maintain credibility. It's meant to be a learning experience for people that are sadly unaware.
If a priest converts from one belief to another faith, it means absolutely nothing to me. I am a "Doubting Thomas", a skeptic and non-believer. The Agnostic Admits, and Bloody History Proves...No Religion is Pure. Muslims kill each other over doctrinal differences, even in Gaza. Sunni Vs Shia.

And Riots Erupt in Iran!

Can A Muslim Really Be True To His Faith, And Declare Friendship With A Non-believing, Stubborn Old Agnostic? You tell me!

Your steadfast friend, reb

(It's 1:40 AM (Eastern) G'Night).


Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

My mother language is not English, But I don't like your use of the word "Training" when you talk about my school. That's right that it was administrated by Muslim Brotherhood, but they weren't "training" us to do anything, they were just teaching us how to be real Muslims, Real Muslims, Mr. reb, not terrorists.

My will to make you and other Western non-Muslims know better about my religion is because I know it's the best system for life.

You know, Mr. reb, I started blogging 4 years ago. My first argument, 4 years ago, was with a British girl, it was a long one. The argument was ended when I told her that the moon is split as a miracle for the prophet made by God, and sent her a report by NASA talking about that fact. She couldn't answer!

What I want to say is that since the first argument until now, I become more and more believer in the greatness of Islamic religion and that it's the best religion ever, and that Qur'an is a miracle itself.

You said; "It's their training that has deluded them, not a hard look at all the other faiths."
But I did it, I took a hard look at other faiths; Christianity through long arguments with Egyptian Christians who live in Australia, we argued about variety of Christian beliefs including the Trinity, the nature of prophet Jesus, what if he said that he's a God or not, "Love you enemies", if the teachings of Christianity are balanced or not, if the bible(s) were distorted or not, and other things as I remember.
And my look at Judaism was through reading the Ten Commandments and some parts of the Torah. I read also about Buddhism.

Maybe you would call that a simple comparative religions study.

Believe me, I swear to God, I became more believer after all these hard looks at other faiths that Islamic religion is the most balanced religion, fitting to everywhere and every time, respecting my mind, providing inner peace, providing real mercy and supporting real freedom & democracy. I became sure that it's from God, the only Divine power that created that universe, no distortion has touched it.

That belief didn't come just from being a student in Muslim countries, but I had ideas about other faiths from my own, with no supervision from other Muslim elderly.

Many non-Muslims who knew about Islamic religion from Qur'an and the the teachings of the prophet admitted that they knew nothing about it before.
Even your guest, JJ family, he said that he learnt about Islam from following one discussion, more than he learn from just watching the news. Just one discussion, with a humble 21 years old Muslim, made that effect! What if they read the Qur'an, read the teachings of Islam from Muslim books?

Mohamed said...

Can A Muslim Really Be True To His Faith, And Declare Friendship With A Non-believing, Stubborn Old Agnostic?

Well, when I read a verse like; "O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). " 49:13
What do you think that verse tells me?
There're differences among us as humans, but these differences don't mean that we will be enemies, instead we're created to know each other, to cooperate and to make the universe a better place to live in.

When I read another verse; "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just." 60:8
The time I'll meet a non-Muslim, who isn't declaring himself as an enemy for me just for being Muslim, I'd smile in his face, help him, lend him my stuff, make charity to him, leave my chair in the bus for a non-Muslim old lady. Allah will love me when I do that.

I would take the example of the prophet in that. Prophet Muhammad had a Jew neighbor, that neighbor was throwing rubbish in front of the prophet's house door, the prophet did no thing to him. One day, when the prophet didn't find the rubbish, he knew that his Jew neighbor is ill, he went to his house so as to visit him!

In a Friday's preach in the close mosque to my house, few weeks ago, the preacher was talking about The Right of The Neighbor, he talked about three kinds of neighbors; the relative neighbor, the Muslim neighbor but not a relative, and the non-Muslim neighbor. He said that the first neighbor has three rights; the right of the relative, the right of the Muslim and the right of the neighborhood. The second has two rights; the right of the Muslim and the right of the neighborhood. And the last one has one right i.e. the right of the neighborhood.
A right! Not a favor you do to your non-Muslim neighbor, but a right that Allah will ask me if I didn't give it. Some of the rights of the neighborhood are; to help him, to share him his sadness and hapiness, not to hurt him, to share him your food, etc.
Yes, that's for the non-Muslim neighbor.

A last thing; I'm already a friend of an American Agnostic 69 years old lady, living in Port Orchard, Washington State. We're exchanging personal images, I sent her my personal photo and my brother's wedding photo, and my photos when I was in the Umrah trip in Mecca with my sister. She sent me her personal photo, and her family photo and her photo with her husband. We discussed a lot about many things. In every year I send her a birthday "electronic" present. We're frinds since the beginning of 2006.

To sum it up, Allah will love me if I dealt kindly and justly with you. Beside, I'm a follower of the teachings of the prophet if I was kind to you.

Do that answer your question?


Urban_Underclass said...


I placed the following comment on the Blog SNAKEHUNTERS under the post War and Our Freedom
I did it in the interests of fairness and LOVE



You can publish this or not it is all the same to me as it is going on my blog, mohmads blog and amillieniests blog anyway.

My Judgment on 'The Great Debate' on your 'Memorial Day Post'

God is love.

I counted the number of times each protagonist used the words;
love, lovth, beloved or loved

Muhamad used these words twice as often as amilleniest. The only other commentator, SNAKEHUNTERS, NEVER USED ANY OF THESE WORDS.

As God is love, I give the debate to Mohamed.

I also would like to know if AMillieniest loves Bin Laden.

The ball is firmly in your court sir.




LOVE - Intense Goodwill - for all humanity, all cultures, all religions; all species of animal - flora & fauna, and all creatures that live in the vast oceans.
Beautiful, isn't it?

But that's not what we observe, is it? We see Carnivore & Herbivore, and the Predator tearing at the flesh of the Gazelle, and the Sheep.

We Witness Pious Religious Leaders with the Insatiable Urge to Proselytize...to first coax, then insist...that their religious notions are superior to all of the others!
When they build their congregations to capacity, they move their tribes, form militant armies; they slaughter and subdue.

Only then, will the victor offer salvation, and equal status, IF...

The 'Infidel' Fully Accepts...The One & Only True God!

Reality Vs Love!

"What Fools We Mortals Be" - reb


Urban_Underclass said...

Is that you Reb?
You old warmongering hypocrite, run along home now and stroke your gun. Think about the old days in Italy.

Rory Stafford, Wexford, Ireland
Christian Socailist and Proud.

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

Maybe there have been many killings made by the name of God. "Thus saith the LORD of hosts: .. * Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but SLAY BOTH man and woman, INFANT AND SUCKLING, ox and sheep, camel and ass.'" Torah, Samuel Chapter 15: (2,3) , The Crusade Wars when hundreds of thousands of innocents were killed, The Zionist market and bus bombings in Palestine, The raids against Palestinian and Egyptian schools, The 9-11 attacks when more than 3.000 of innocents were killed, The killing of Iraqis by he Crusades of BlackWater (The Knights of the Templar), the bombing of mosques in Iraq, the attacks against tourists in some countries, etc.

All that madness was made by God's name; Jehovah, Jesus and Allah. But what is more worse? What is more sin? The killing made by the name of Jehovah? Jesus? Allah? Is killing a Jew is worse? Or killing a Christian is worser? Or killing a Muslim is the most worse?

My answer is; All Are Madness, All Are Bad, All Killing Is Evil. That's a great sin in all religions.

In Bible, Ten Commandments; "You shall not murder" Deuteronomy 5:17
And in Qur'an; ".. if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: .." 5:32

All religions prohibited the killing of innocents. It's extremists who kill.

The three Divine messages of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all mercy. That's because they all came from the one true God, the Most Merciful, who created man and loves him.


Rory Stafford of Wexford,

I've permanently withheld the ad hominum attacks, the insults, and the four-letter words that you seem unable to control using.

Mohamed should see them all.... published here; it would reveal much of your true nature; I'll be happy to print and send them via Airmail, (If Mohamed has a Post-Office Box Number).

Christian, Socialist or Atheist-Contrarian that delights in empty argumentation? It's hard to tell from the confused recycling of devastating thought patterns.

You Win Again, Rory. Be at peace.


Rory Stafford, from Wexford is no longer welcome on the snake hunters blog. reb

Urban_Underclass said...


How are you going to keep me away from your blog, and what to stop me commenting anonymously if I feel like it. Censorship is dumb and dose not work. The truth comes out in the end.

Mohamed can read everything I've said on his blog, your blog and my blog. He is obviously not stupid.


Urban_Underclass said...


I watched the film you recommended on youtube (Daddy Tell me about God parts 1 to 5).

It is interesting and easy to understand.

On thing the speaker said that I thought was very wise was,
"Being kind to each other shows kindness to Allah".
This I believe to be true.

I am a Roman Catholic, but I am not a great religious scholar.

The speaker's description of the Catholic sacrament of confession (intercession) is a bit old fashioned and inaccurate.
I only go to confession once or twice a year, unless I have done something really bad which is on my mind. It is just a relaxed conversation in a comfortable room with a wise old priest who then tell you that God has forgiven your sins (even ones you forgot to mention).
The idea of a booth and the angry judgmental priest is old fashioned. In some places it may be like that but not the beautiful Franciscan Friary where I worship.

I like the idea that God did not rest on the 7th day!

One question, the speaker talks about shirk, a sin that can not be forgiven.

What is shirk?

Thank you for your interesting and informative blog.


Mohamed said...


Welcome back to my blog.

That's very good to tell me that you've watched the video.

Personally, I don't accept the concept of confession. When I commit a sin, bad or too bad, I don't like to announce it, I don't like that any other human knows about it. Going to a man just like me, and "confessing" to him! Impossible!! I don't need a man just like me to tell me if God has forgiven me or not.

There is no mediation between human and God in Islamic belief, if you want something from God, if you committed a sin and want to repent, just pray for God. Directly from you to God.

Allah said in Qur'an; "When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. " 2:186

About God's rest in the 7th day.
I really wonder when I read the Ten Commandements and read about Christian beliefs. I can't understand how they believe that God would go tired that he would need to rest!!
I don't understand too how Christians believe that God "was born"?!! How could it be that God was a child born from a human woman, he was 1 day years old, then 2 days years old, then 3 days, 4 days, a week, a month, a year, 2 years, ..! When he cry his mother would clam him, when he ask for food his mother would feed him by her milk, when he evacuate his mother would clean him. When he grew up, he was praying (praying to who when he's God?!!), when he is hungry he eats, when he has a stomach pain he go to the bathroom, ... Isn't all of that apply to a human not God?

We Muslims believe that the birth of prophet Jesus was a miracle, he was born to the virgin mother Marry, he talked to the Jews when he was in his cradle, he was able to heal the ill people by the help of God, turn the clay into birds by the help of God. He was a miracle from God, but he wasn't himself the God. When I see the sun from my home window, this don't make the window is the sun!

About the Shirk.
It's the exact Arabic word of "Polytheism".

"Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed. " Qur'an 4:48

Thanks for your visit,


Urban_Underclass said...


Thanks for your response Mohamed.
So,as you know we Christians have 10 commandments, if we break them we Catholics confess.
Confession is not about punishment done right it is therapeutic. I trust my priest and actually enjoy confession.

"Polytheism", that is like breaking our first commandment, "I am the Lord thy God and you shall have no other God but me."

Thank you again for your response,


Urban_Underclass said...


On God being born, and raised by his mother. This is tricky. When Jesus died and was resurrected. He came back and met his disciples. He was the same man but somehow transformed.

This is in the Gospels most clearly in this passage,

As she said this she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not recognize him. Jesus said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping? Who are you looking for? She thought was the gardener, "Lord, if you have taken him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will go and remove him."
John(20 verse 14-15)

So maybe Jueus was not God until he came back from the dead. This is only my idea and I am not a great scholar.


Mohamed said...


I couldn't understand your last statement;
So maybe Jueus was not God until he came back from the dead.
So, was he a man, then he turned into a God?!!
Forgive me if that offend you, but it's more like the old Greeks and Pharaohs beliefs. The king lives as a man, or a son of the God of the sun, then when he dies the people worship him as a God! I studied that about the ancient Egyptian beliefs.

You know! One of the great things that I love about Islam is that it respects my mind. It don't say; That's it, just accept it as it's. But instead it says; Think and reach the fact by your mind.

Just read the translation of these great verses;

"Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day,- there are indeed Signs for men of understanding,- *
Men who celebrate the praises of Allah, standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and contemplate the (wonders of) creation in the heavens and the earth, (With the thought): "Our Lord! not for naught Hast Thou created (all) this! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire. *
"Our Lord! any whom Thou dost admit to the Fire, Truly Thou coverest with shame, and never will wrong-doers Find any helpers! *
"Our Lord! we have heard the call of one calling (Us) to Faith, 'Believe ye in the Lord,' and we have believed. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins, blot out from us our iniquities, and take to Thyself our souls in the company of the righteous. *
"Our Lord! Grant us what Thou didst promise unto us through Thine apostles, and save us from shame on the Day of Judgment: For Thou never breakest Thy promise."


Mohamed said...


You said; "Polytheism", that is like breaking our first commandment, "I am the Lord thy God and you shall have no other God but me."

I don't know if you know it or not, but we Muslims believe that the three Divine messages; Judaism, Christianity and Islam came from one God. The three Holy Books; Torah, Bible and Qur'an were all revealed by the same God.

"Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)." " 2:136

That's why you'll find the same teachings in the three Holy Books.


Anonymous said...

Mohamed, Just a cautionary note:

Ask yourself this question:

Why would your new-found friend Rory Stafford try to "butter-you-up" with inane questions...Is he searching to enlist an informed scholar of Islam...using words like LOVE to disguise his Intent?

WHY...would Rory use Morse Code, to place a five-word "nasty insult" directed at me - on Mr "A"s weblog? (I Do Read Morse Code) - ... --- ...

TEST: We have the print-out; see if he has the strength to Deny It.

Be advised:

This person "Graycrow-UnderClass" is not a credit to your weblog.

Your friend, reb


Mohamed - I knew it would happen!

Go to Amillennialist, August 10th,
there you will see many samples of filth I warned about.

Rory has exploded on another post, just as he has on snake-hunters.

It is said that Satan has many
"Imps" that gleefully shovel bones.
They say the Devil, ol' Beelzeebub,
is the 'Author Of Deception and Filth'...

I defer on that one. My best regards,


Urban_Underclass said...

are you agnostic or not?



I was baptized at 5 years of age, by a Roman Catholic Priest. A family friend took me to her church
to have "holy water" poured on my head! Baptisml name "joseph".

When my Baptist Dad heard about it, he snorted "Horse-Feathers!"
When I returned from the War at 21 years, I found my Mother writing a
check to a Wealthy Radio Evangelist
that was famous in Los Angeles for sending Bibles to U.S. Prisons!

A U.S. Marine shot this guy dead,
emptied his Service .45 ...for messing around with his wife while he was overseas. He was exonerated; Found Not Guilty of Murder!

It was headlines in all of the L.A. Newspapers for a week, so it's
a matter of public record.


I've been tracking these phoney Televangelists ever since those days! Religion is a passionate, personal study; I believe in Evidence, not foolish notions. Get it? Read this, if Rory can stand some truth about Roman Catholicism:

American Freedom & Catholic Power by Paul Blanshard (1961) Beacon Press. Out-of print, but available.

Bibliography/Index liberally quotes
Observatori Romano, Cardinals & bishops, The Jesuits, etc from page
307-350!!! Chapters on "How The Hierarcy Works - Sex, Birth Control, Eugenics - The Church & Medicine - Fascism Communism Labor - Science Scholarship and Superstition, AND The Catholic Plan For America.


I respect Mohamed Fadly AND my scholarly friend Amillennialist.

I ignore idiotic insults from addicts, drunks & foolish people that quickly judge my motives, throw reviles and dirty names.

At this point in time, I am still a skeptic with honorable intentions; an Agnostic, a real-life Doubting Thomas!

Why do you bother with me? I am of no value to Rory Stafford. reb



I'll Publicly Apologize... to any sincere person that feels I've been unfair or intemporate in my comments...on any weblog, including this one.

We all have legitimate feelings & emotions, and we are all subject to a wide variety of opinions, including passionate differences.

The Purpose Of The Serious Blogger Must Always Be...To Steadfastly Maintain A Desire To Publish A Forum Dedicated To The Courteous Dissemination Of Accurate Information, Without Compromise Or Deception.


Urban_Underclass said...

Despite your hateful, sectarian nonsense, I kind of like you.
If you and your friend with the unspellable name would only run ONE uncensored blog maybe we could communicate.

Urban_Underclass said...

B.T.W you are always welcome to talk on my blog or Pourquoi Pas but we really don't want to seem like bullies and would be just as happy to talk on your own, uncensored blog.



I must confess, I like you too; anyone that has a fondness for dogs
can't be all bad. A dog displays more loyalty than most humans!

Think about it!

I believe strongly in Freedom of All Religions; I reject those that
attempt to force a religion, or to attempt to use coercive tactics or subtle trickery & propaganda against our great 1st Amendment Freedoms in order to dominate and destroy all other fundamental beliefs in Creation & a Creator; to implant their violent notions & traditions on others. That's often the Source of WAR! Read History.

Jeanette, the Christian lady on that ugly website seems the only person worth discussing...she has never called me a dirty name, and seems to have good judgement. I cannot imagine why she visits that
site. Perhaps she wants to convert them to Christ. That's a secular hot-bed. Poor dear! reb

Urban_Underclass said...

HI Reb,
Glad to hear you lie me! I'd agree anyone who likes dogs can't be all bad. I also believe in freedom of worship.
Pourquos Pas? might now be to every ones taste but you do get interesting political discussions there, and while I'd admit most people there a left-wing, you do get a wide range of visitors.


Rory, I'll respectfully ask that you tap into "Blogger Content Policy", then scroll down to...

* Porn/Obscenity
* Hateful Content
* Violent Content (threats)



Urban_Underclass said...


I checked the page you mentioned, I thoiught this section was interesting:

HATEFUL CONTENT: Users may not publish material that promotes hate toward groups based on race or ethnic origin, religion, disability, gender, age, veteran status, and sexual orientation/gender identity.

Be careful Reb, the thought police could be visiting your site :-)




Yeah, I'm scared to death; Obama's
Acorn "thought-police" may accuse me of being a "xenophobic, racist, war-mongering facist pig" like they do on PorkiePas blog. Hah!

Surely, you jest. reb

Urban_Underclass said...

Amillineniaiist writes,
"Urban Underclass Rory Graycrow says that moderating comments is censorship is fascism."

Not sure what you mean. I will try to clarify.

1) You have this habit of quoting out of context. This is made all the easier to do if you moderate comments.

2) Mr Fadly has asked that people don't use bad language on this blog, so I don't. He does not moderate comments.

3) Anyone who wants to can use bad language on my blog. In fact, I see a certain poetic beauty in a well constructed string of curses.

4) Really it's your sectarian hatred of people of other faiths, and your professed admiration for the ruthless and invasive medieval crusades that puts the word fascism into my head. The comment moderation is just a symptom.

Urban_Underclass said...


If I admired that, I'd be a fan of jihad, which you yourself admit is worse than Crusade.

There you go again, quoting out of context, or to put it more succinctly, lying.