Aug 19, 2009

Islam: Way Of Logical Conviction


One of the greatest features about Islamic religion is that it do respect the mind. It follows the route of logical conviction, the way of providing evidences that any normal free mind would simply accept. Unlike other faiths that would ignore the logical conviction depending on unapproachable secrets, and only the love towards some person, or concepts that deeply contradict the logical thinking, Islamic religion is so different.


One of the most verses that I like too much in the Qur'an is in the 2nd Chapter (The Cow). It's about an argument between prophet Abraham and a king that claims to be a god..

"Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death." He said: "I give life and death". "

That man was a king claiming to be a god, when he argued with prophet Abraham about that, the prophet was trying to refute his claims, so he said that it's only Allah that can give life and death. The king answered that he too can give life and death, he said; "If I have two captives that will face the penalty of death, I'll execute the first, and gave amnesty to the other. That's how I can give death and life."
The prophet didn't argue with him that it's not what he meant by giving life and death, but he moved immediately to the next evidence..

Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." "

Every time I read this verse, I admire prophet Abraham and say; "How great are you, prophet Abraham!". He shut him up so simply! He revealed the truth to him by a very strong logical evidence. I wonder how the fellows of that king felt at that moment. It was a challenge for their minds, an invitation for them to stop and think for a moment; "If he is truly a god, so how he couldn't win that challenge!" I'm sure their minds were awakened up by hearing that argument.

"Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust."

Reading Chapter 21 (The Prophets) in Qur'an few days ago, I read great verses about the story of prophet Abraham trying to invite his people to abandon polytheism to worshiping the One God..

The verses start by;

"We bestowed aforetime on Abraham his rectitude of conduct, and well were We acquainted with him. * Behold! he said to his father and his people, "What are these images, to which ye are (so assiduously) devoted? * They said, "We found our fathers worshipping them." * He said, "Indeed ye have been in manifest error - ye and your fathers." * They said, "Have you brought us the Truth, or are you one of those who jest?" * He said, "Nay, your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, He Who created them (from nothing): and I am a witness to this (Truth). "

His people was worshiping idols, kneeling to them and providing sacrifices to them! An act that is obviously contradicting the mind and logical thinking. At first he argued with them, he said and they said too, when he found out that the argument is not revealing the mist away from their minds, and that the words are not enough, he decided to execute a plan, a plan that will make their eyes see a physical convincing evidence..

" "And by Allah, I have a plan for your idols - after ye go away and turn your backs". * So he broke them to pieces, (all) but the biggest of them, that they might turn (and address themselves) to it. "

The plan was about putting them face to face with the fact that; They Are Worshiping Stones! He broke all the idols using an ax, then he left the biggest idol untouched, and put the ax on the statue's shoulder..

"They said, "Who has done this to our gods? He must indeed be some man of impiety!" * They said, "We heard a youth talk of them: He is called Abraham." * They said, "Then bring him before the eyes of the people, that they may bear witness." * They said, "Art thou the one that did this with our gods, O Abraham?" * He said: "Nay, this was done by - this is their biggest one! ask them, if they can speak intelligently!" "

The scene for the people of Abraham was the next; Broken Idols, The Biggest One Is Unbroken With An Ax On Its Shoulder, and The Doer Is Unknown. They brought the one who might have did it i.e. Abraham and asked him; "Did you do it?" He simply pointed at the biggest statue saying; "He did it!".. "Ask them if they can speak!"
Prophet Abraham was saying to them; "That big statue that can't move and can't see is the one who broke your "gods"" He was challenging their minds. "Those idols that you found your fathers worshiping, kneeling and submitting to them, praying for them and providing sacrifices are just stones that cannot speak or feel. Where are your minds when you kneel to a stone?!! Or how you're thinking when you worship and provide sacrifices to a stone that cannot feel your worshiping and won't see or feel your sacrifices or even your presence?" By this plan, he was screaming at them; "WALK UP!"
He provided a very convincing evidence for their minds to make them think, to stop for a moment and let their minds see the truth. "Ask them, if they can speak intelligently!" A very short statement, but a very convincing evidence..

"So they turned to themselves and said, "Surely ye are the ones in the wrong!" * Then were they confounded with shame: (they said), "Thou knowest full well that these (idols) do not speak!" * (Abraham) said, "Do ye then worship, besides Allah, things that can neither be of any good to you nor do you harm? * "Fie upon you, and upon the things that ye worship besides Allah. Have ye no sense?".. "


Other great verse that clearly prove that faith isn't accepted from a Muslim if that faith didn't came from a strong conviction..

"Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day,- there are indeed Signs for men of understanding,- * Men who celebrate the praises of Allah, standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and contemplate the (wonders of) creation in the heavens and the earth, (With the thought): "Our Lord! not for naught Hast Thou created (all) this! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire. * "Our Lord! any whom Thou dost admit to the Fire, Truly Thou coverest with shame, and never will wrong-doers Find any helpers! * "Our Lord! we have heard the call of one calling (Us) to Faith, 'Believe ye in the Lord,' and we have believed. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins, blot out from us our iniquities, and take to Thyself our souls in the company of the righteous. * "Our Lord! Grant us what Thou didst promise unto us through Thine apostles, and save us from shame on the Day of Judgment: For Thou never breakest Thy promise." "

The message of these verses in Surah 3 (The Family Of 'Imran) is clear. Human must contemplate in the wonders of God's creation, and reach the truth of the faith and the truth of creation through that contemplation, through his own mind.

80 comments:

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Friend Mohamed,

These are the opening words:

"One of the greatest features about Islamic religion is...respect the mind...follows the route of logical
conviction." (That sounds good.)

Now, for the other side of the coin: The serious student runs into an Islamic Doctrine in the Qur'an - "Taqiyaa" that allows Shia & Sunni Muslims to use Purposeful Deception, when speaking to "infidels and non-believers" to more easily convert them to Islam.

A Chapter of "Taqiyya" is available
at Amillennialist Contra Mundum, plus several pages including direct quotes from the Holy Qur'an in Wikipedia.

Please give us your version of what 'Taqiyya' actually means.

reb
__________________________________

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SNAKE HUNTERS said...

It's curious, I was the first to pose a question on this post on August 19th. It was a solid and relevant query about an important Muslim Doctrine, that requires an answer, from someone...preferably
a person that is well-qualified in Sharia Law and the Holy Qur'an.

I wish to know more about this word
'Taqiyya'...anyone, please? reb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,
Always happy to help, I googled it for you, from Wikipedia:

Within the Shia theological framework,[1] the concept of Taqiyya (تقية - 'fear, guard against', also taghiyeh)[2] refers to a dispensation allowing believers to conceal their faith when under threat, persecution or compulsion.[3]

The word "al-Taqiyya" literally means: "Concealing or disguising one's beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies at a time of imminent danger, whether now or later in time, to save oneself from physical and/or mental injury." A one-word translation would be "dissimulation." [4]


Hope this helps,
Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

RORY,

IF you had bothered to read the first half of S/H's Aug 16th Post, "Indisputable Facts", then...
read my first comment on this post...I asked 'Friend Mohamed' for his appraisal of "Taqiyya", not
Wikipedia's!

The U.S.A. has been invaded by a foreign ideology with Saudi Arabian Oil Money! King Abdullah's band of thieves funds C.A.I.R., The Muslim Brotherhood, The American Council of North America, The FIQH Council of North America, plus 2000 Mosques!

These determined 'action groups' use "permitted deception" - Taqiyya - to promote their Global Jihad agenda in all major U.S. cities!

When I asked for an authoritive answer from Friend Mohamed, he remained silent.

I did not ask for, nor did I seek out my friend Rory, to be 'the authoritive source'. reb
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,
Did you write this in the comments section of your interesting and informative web-log?

Lockerbe, Scotland - PanAm 103, where 270 died needlessly, is just one incident among thousands since 9/11. That bomber returned to Libya
a muslim hero! That's Jihad.


Please Reb, Lockerbie occurred in 1988, a full 13 years before 9/11.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Read it again, rory.

..."one incident among thousands" since 9/11. There have been 14,000
terrorist incidents since 9/11.

You are swatting at fleas! reb
__________________________________
From Greybeard's Mailbox > >

PEACE ISN'T ARAB GOAL

Ignorance and Deception are arguably the most-used tools
in the devil's tool-box. - Jeff
>
Jeff Jacoby, www.Boston.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.lazyonebenn.blospot.com

Mohamed said...

Rory,

Thanks for your efforts.

******

Mr. reb,

I wasn't "silent", I was just away where there were no close computer with internet.

Anyway, when you asked about Taqiyya, then there are two questions to answer;
a) What is Taqiyya?
b) Who believes in it?

Here we go;

Taqiyya is a concept that means that those who believe in it show kindness and the opposing of what they really believe in when they are among those who they consider as their enemies.

For example; if you believe in something in some specific way, and you practice it someway, when you exist alone among a big group that believe in a different thing or a different practice, you can practice it their way, or show that you believe in what they believe in, so as to keep yourself unrecognized.
Another example is; if you believe strongly in something, when you argue with someone that disbelieve in it, it's allowed to show the opposite of what you really believe in.

About the second question; Who Believes In It?
This concept only exists in the Shi'a beliefs. Sunni's don't believe in it. Shi'a practice towards the non-Muslims, and even towards the Sunni's.

>>
Now what do you think about the quotes in the post, the stories of prophet Abraham and the verse about contemplation in the universe wonders?

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

I wonder how you consider me as someone...preferably
a person that is well-qualified in Sharia Law and the Holy Qur'an.


Then you say words like; one incident among thousands" since 9/11. There have been 14,000 terrorist incidents since 9/11. .. That's Jihad.

Did you read about Jihad? Did you read about the kinds of Jihad? Do you know about the Jihad against bad desires? Did you read about the Jihad against the invaders and occupiers? Did you read about the Jihad against those who attack the innocents?

I can tell you about Jihad. Jihad through Sharia Law and the Holy Qur'an.

Mr. reb, No, That's Not Jihad. 9-11 is terrorism, whoever committed that horrible attacks, Is he a Muslim, Is he a Jew, Is he an American Christian? It's terrorism, not Jihad.
Bombing trains and buses, markets and cinemas, that's terrorism, not Jihad, whoever did it. Is he a Muslim in England? Is he a Zionist Jew in Palestine? It's terrorism.

Jihad is Jihad. Terrorism is Terrorism. Killing a child, that's terrorism. Bombing a train, that's terrorism. Killing an occupier soldier that kills the innocents, that's Jihad. Bombing an occupier tank, that's Jihad.

Mr. reb, Many Americans aren't fair enough to understand that when Muslims fought against the pagans of Arabian Peninsula 1400 years ago, is not different than the fighting of Americans defending themselves and the American citizens.
They consider killing hundreds of thousands of civilians in seconds in response of attacking a militant base as legal war act, but rising up and resisting the evil that kill and rape the innocence, they simply and blindly consider it as .. terrorism!!

Be Fair!

Stop.... Contemplate... Think.. just for a moment!

Your friend,
Mohamed

Urban_Underclass said...

Mohamed,

You're welcome.

Reb,

I think your factual error about Lockerbie is very telling. Maybe you are wrong about other things. Maybe you need to read, and think a bit about what is really going on in the world.

How many Islamic troops are stationed in Christian lands anywhere in the world?
Compare that to the number of Christian troops stationed all over the middle east.

I don't see a jihad, I see a crusade (and I don't think that's a good thing).

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

The Mind Is A Sponge...

When the mind become hardened, it is unlikely to accept anything new.

Mohamed believes that the U.S.A. had no moral imperitive to end a war that took 40+ million lives!

German scientists were working on the A-Bomb in the 1930's, and if they were first to have it, this world would be in a different place today. We would all be the slaves of Nazi Germany Today.

a) Hitler wanted his 1000 yr Reich To Totally Dominate All Nations!

b) Reading The Dreams of Prophet Mohammad, with those grim verses in the Holy Qur'an, most of the leadership muslims with this grand scheme in the pages of an ancient book, have an unholy Islamic Desire to Achieve Total Power, To Dominate All Cultures, All Religions, all the Nations On This Planet.

Ugly Honor-killings, Stoning of their young women, sexual mutilations of infant girls, chopping off hands & feet, Beheadings on Holy Friday...how much naked evidence do you need to convince you that your path of unspeakable terror is dead wrong?

With Clever Persuasion (Taqiyya), or with Infiltration & Assimilation, or with Brute Terror, with your Suicidal Bombers, and the Great Lie of 72 Perpetual Virgins...It appears to make no difference to the totally committed believer, and the horror of 9/11 is the Indisputable, Incontrovertable Evidence.

You would do well to think about that; pray about it, if that pleases you. Submit you mind to your God to make some much-needed Changes!

IGNOR-ANCE, that' the problem!

What Utter Fools We Mortals Be.

reb
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Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

To back up my recent crusade comment:

Excerpt from article in the French Political Newspaper, “Le Canard Enchainé” (the article is reprinted in full at Pourquoi Pas).


This isn’t a joke. The president of the United States, in a top-secret phone call to a major European ally, asked for French troops to join American soldiers in attacking Iraq as a mission from God.
Now out of office, Chirac recounts that the American leader appealed to their “common faith” (Christianity) and told him: “Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East…. The biblical prophecies are being fulfilled…. This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people’s enemies before a New Age begins.”


If that doesn't sound like a call for a crusade, then I don't know what is.

Rory

Mohamed said...

Rory,

But it was more obvious than that..

Just listen to the president of the US saying; "This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while."

Also visit this link;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6740735.ece

The founder of Black Water company -that is used by the US government to perform militant operations against Iraq- is accused of being motivated to kill Iraqi citizens by the belief in Crusades. He believes that as a Christian he should eliminate Muslims and Islamic faith, and that he should destroy Iraqi life.

No one can forget what the bloody Crusades did to the world. Thousands of innocent Muslims were killed just for being Muslims, Many cities were ruined. In Jerusalem, in one week, the armies of crusades, in the name of a the cross, they murdered 70.000 of Muslims! It was nothing but a bloodbath.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory, One More Time:

It's not the Iranians that fund those infiltrator groups mentioned
in our Indisputable Facts (post) of
August 16th, it's Saudi King Abdullah's Oil Wealth.

Isn't it curious that you would use the name of a traitorous President like Jacques Chirac, to fortify your foolish talking points?

Put this in PorkiePas (as is):

That French President was the very imbecile that accepted Oil Voucher
Bribes from his visiting friend, the Butcher of Bagdad, Saddam Hussein, agreeing to send 600 technical engineers and laborers to build the Osiris Nuclear Facility, south of Bagdad in 1975.

Six Israeli Jets took that facility
out in 1981, just before it "went on-line" to the immense relief of
Iran, Kuwait, Egypt & Saudi Arabia!

Ask Friend Mohamed about that one.

Just Imagine What Saddam, Qusay & Uday could have managed with Nukes!

Chemical Ali could have retired to Paris, ..

Bringing up the ancient crusades to spin current events, and failing to mention the great muslim warrior, Saladin! Another faux pas.

Again sucking up to Mohamed, Rory?
It won't work; he'll see through
you like a pane of clear glass on a rainy day.

Once again, rory of wexford exhibits...

Monumental, Unforgivable Ignor-ance of History, and The Brutal On-going Holy War Where Innocents on Both Sides Die Every Day. reb

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

What are you talking about?

.. those grim verses in the Holy Qur'an .. What do you mean? The verses that we discussed about on your blog and concluded that they are the iron hand only against the oppressors? But for every other one there is; "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just. "

Ugly Honor-killings It's a practice that contradict the teachings of Islam. The teachings of "When the female (infant), buried alive, is questioned - * For what crime she was killed; " 81: 8,9

Stoning of their young women What stoning? Do you mean the punishment of those who commit adultery? But it's for both the partners in that crime; the male and female. Not restricted on their young women. It's an old sanction approved by both Judaism and Christianity before. "Now Moses in the Law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest Thou?" .. He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." John 8:2-11 KJV
In Islam, it's not easily executed, but there is a hard-to-be-achieved condition that must be founded to execute that sanction. Four persons must witness the act, the act itself, you understand.
"Why did they not bring four witnesses to prove it? When they have not brought the witnesses, such men, in the sight of Allah, (stand forth) themselves as liars!" 24:13
That sanction is not for the adultery itself, but it's for revealing it that four persons see that disgusting sin.

Beheadings on Holy Friday You mean beheading of rapists of children and killers? Tell me about more just sanction!

Taqiyya Didn't I tell you that Sunni's don't believe in it?

.. with your Suicidal Bombers What? My Suicidal Bombers? I don't have a Suicidal Bomber? I refer you back to "An Important Fatwa About Terrorism" post. Read it!

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

I would partially agree..

When the mind become hardened, it is unlikely to accept anything new.

Zionism is terrorism, would any American agree?
Islam is Mercy, would any American say; Yes?
Terrorism is terrorism, would any American agree?
And killing hundreds of thousands of civilians in answer of attacking militants is unthinkable evil, would any American agree for that?

The problem of many Americans that they don't judge neutrally, they don't have some general and abstract rule that help them to judge. If they heard about killing a child news, they won't say immediately; "What a terrorism!"
But they would ask first; "Was he a Palestinian or Israeli?!!" If they heard about assassintaing someone, they would ask first; "Was he a Palestinian or Israeli?!!"

Unfortunaltely you aren't ready to change the ideas taken from what you heard systematically in your news for years. You aren't ready to give yourself a moment to think .. just to use your mind...
If Islam is really terrorism, if that "kill-culture" is deep rooted in that religion, so how it's the vast spreading religion in America among American citizens? You don't try to find some answer .. You just shut your mind, stop thinking and numb your brain.
It maybe your neighbor, a soldier that fought beside you, a friend, a job partner, what would convince them of Islam? When they have an ideology the same as all Americans, what would convince them to convert to Islam if it's truly a religion of evil? Why? How?

Question Is The Key For The Knowledge. But do we really use that key, or leave it to rust?

Urban_Underclass said...

I know Mohamed,

The original crusaders were nothing but landless soldiers of fortune and bad men who had been promised forgivness of their sins if they took the cross.

It was a shameful shambles, even the Orthodox christians of Constantinople hated the brutal crusaders when they showed up.

Rory

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

You quote facts that suit you, like what you said about president Chirac. You know perfectly well that the US and Britain were happy to sell weapons to Saddam for years and did not care who they were used on.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

To Summarize, and Hopefully Conclude This Discussion with A
Suggestion:

Positions:

Mr Amillenialist - This Judeo-Christian Scholar believes that YHWH/Jehovah is the Creator of our
Universe, and that Jesus is His Appointed Son/Messenger, given a
human body, sent down to Save All Faithful For Eternity.

Mohamed Fadly - is a True Believer in Allah, the (identical) Creator, and Mohammad is His Prophet-Messenger; that Jesus is a (Secondary) True Prophet; the Qur'an a Latter-Day Holy Book, superior to The Holy Bible.

Rory Stafford claims to be 90% Atheist/10% Roman Catholic! Since Atheism is an absurd position on its face...for how can an Athiest ever Hope To Prove A Negative?

Also, most muslims believe that this is Polytheism at best, and more likely rory is judged a heathen-non believer, he and all like him deserve beheading, and buttering up to Friendly Mohamed is simply gross foolishness.

Rory chooses to IGNORE the grisly stonings, surgical mutilations, beheadings, etc allowed under Islam's Sharia Law; what Rory Believes, seems unworthy of any further examination. In a word, it's irrelevant.

The Agnostic Position - In an attempt to achieve the delicate balance of Fairness, Maintain an Open Mind, and remain faithful to our First Amendment Fundamentals of Freedom of (Peaceful) Religions,

I shall hold to a simple fact:, I just cannot have an Absolute Faith
in Any Of The Above Notions.

If Denied This Option, I would choose Mr "A's" belief in the gentle wisdom Jesus over the Violence of Prophet Mohammad... as the more logical and reasonable of them all.

Suggestion:

See Amillennialist Nine Debate Positions/Comments on 7/7/2009 in
"Memorial Parade" (post).

Thank you. reb
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Urban_Underclass said...

Hi all,

I would really like your input on my latest post on my blog, Is this mysterious Amillennialist?

Regards,
Rory

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

Everyone knows that all atheists and true believers despise agnostics for the fence-sitters that they are.

I am not afraid to stand in front of my God on the day of judgement, if he exists.

I try to live by Christian principals as outlined in the four gospels.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

See above for more foolishness by Rory Wexford!
----

I've posted this notice on the debate sequence in... Memorial Parade (post):

Your Attention Please...

Perhaps, because Mohamed Fadly felt
he was losing badly to a superior intellect, he decided to withdraw, back into a more comfortable position...Understanding Islam Weblog...the debate continues now where there is Less Traffic, Less Exposure!

In doing so, his Open-Forum Format has allowed the debate to become corrupted by a no-nothing Atheist -Rory Stafford of Wexford, Ireland.

(Sorry)

Please go there now (See Our Links)
----
reb
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb, Reb, Reb,

I know stuff, for a start I speak two languages fluently (German and English) and can get by in two more (Irish and French).

Mohamed (the inferior intellect) also speaks at least two languages fluently (English and Arabic).

Now maybe you and the superior intellect Amillenniumest would like to continue the debate in a different tongue?

As far as I can see Hugh is just a copy and paste artist and one of the smallest minds I have ever been unfortunate enough to encounter.

Rory

Mohamed said...

Amillenialist,

I told you before; You Presence Is Not Welcomed Here.

Keep the rest of your dignity and don't come again.

***

Mr. reb,

Thinking about what would reveal our fact. I can realize that there are two things that sooner or later will reveal our fact; Anger and Extremism. When someone goes angry, his true fact shows up. When he becomes extremist, nothing would hide that ugly thing, even if he kept hiding it for years.

Being courage enough to admit a truth isn't an easy thing. Many aren't, few are. Your president, the president of the United States was courage enough to admit that "These rituals remind us of the principles that we hold in common, and Islam's role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance, and the dignity of all human beings."

Mr. reb, Are you courage enough to admit that?!!

No.. So, here you're an easier challenge, a challenge that you won't be able to face, but here you're;
When you said; .. grisly stonings, surgical mutilations, beheadings, etc ALLOWED UNDER ISLAM'S SHAARIA LAW, right? So, my challenge is; can you prove that these things is truly allowed under Shari'a law as an oppression act? Can you?
I'll wait for a talk to my mind, not quoting false incidents, or things that Islam fought and you claim that Islam supports! You know why? Because Islam is the way of logical conviction.

Mohamed said...

Mr .reb,

You said talking about Rory; he and all like him deserve beheading.

What such a crazy thinking!!

The principle of difference exists, but this don't mean that "beheading" is the reasonable tool for those who differs with us.

Just try to think for a moment before you make such an act or threat against someone that didn't hurt you, but just differed with you.

But if you mean by these words, talking about somehow a belief of Muslims, then I can tell you about the truth not that false weak accusation..

A bier passed by prophet Muhammad, and he rose up; and it was said to him, " This is the funeral of a Jew." He answered, "Was it not the holder of a soul?"
Rising up for a Jew's funeral? Saying that it's a soul? What a respect even for a non-Muslim!

If your false claims that Muslims should "behead" he and all like him, then what's the point of the following verses..

"Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance. " 16:125

And, "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just. "

Mr. reb,

Another challenge.. Can you prove your claim that Muslims or Shari'a believe that Rory and all like him deserve beheading. I'll wait too..

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

I've nothing more to say either, I await your response.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed,

a) IF I tried to fund, or build a Christian Church, or a Mormon or Buddhist Temple in Saudi Arabia, I could lose my head!

b) IF Rory innocently proclaimed his belief in Atheism in that land,
outraged Saudi's might just kick his butt, OR cut his head off!

c) If Rory's Blog Of Blogs tell people he has identified the Amillennialist as some unknown guy
in Chino, California, and produces
no proof, it's just goofy!

d) IF Mohamed has wearied of the fine debate, without interruption, on our Memorial Parade Post, then I'm the big loser, because I learned more than I had ever thought possible. You know that you are always welcome there...say anything you like... ask any single question. I'll try, but I do not always have a good enough answer for you. That takes a lifetime of study, scholarship degrees. I have no college degrees.

e) I made it clear to Rory that he has at times, thrown just enough
stupid comments & insults, so he has lost the privilege to comment on Snake Hunters Blog. He is no longer welcome there (but he tried again today.) He and S***stirrer are permanently banned.

Who needs it?

f) Now, your open-forum has been corrupted (again) by this bi-lingual genius; I just don't have the patience. You can baby-sit these jokers until you finally recognize their extreme negativity
has no value to your weblog, whatsoever! Zero! Go visit Blog Of Blogs, or their favorite PourquiPigPas; Why Not? See the filthy sleeze for yourself!

g) Come back, visit the old snakehunter in 6 months or a year; I'll be proud to have Mohamed, or Greybeard Al, or the mysterious Sir Amillennialist, ANYTIME.
If I'm still around.

My best wishes to you. reb
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

What exactly is there on Blog of Blogs that you would describe as filthy sleeze?
It is mainly about music, poetry and our very simple lives.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory, You foolishly brag about the "freedom of speech" as does your friends Valerie & S***stirrer.
Witness the PorkiePas blog.

Defending Sleeze Like That on your 'music & poetry' blog is Sleeze Personified. Grow up!

reb
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

You failed!

You couldn't face my challenges, and talk to my mind.

All what you said is; I'll try, but I do not always have a good enough answer for you. That takes a lifetime of study, scholarship degrees. I have no college degrees.

When you don't have a proof about what you say, then just keep silent. That's a better way than just accusing without having one evidence about your claims.
When you don't have a college degree in Physics, then don't talk about Physics, util you have one. When you don't have the least information about Islamic culture, then don't just throw accusations that you cannot defend.

Will you think again?!!

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed,
I don't believe that I have failed;

Thanks to You, and Amillennialist, I have learned more about Islam and Christianity than I had ever dared to hope for in a Church!

To listen carefully when you don't
know, is the esssence of learning.

My son-in-law has a Phd in Nuclear Physics (metalurgy/ceramics) for 24 years; his wife, my oldest daughter is a sincere Christian.

I do not have degrees in 'Holyland
Studies' so I listen closely to You and to Mr "A". I believe that Amillennialist might know more about that complex subject than any 21 yr old Sharia Law Student!

(I hope this does not offend you.)

I know more about what happens to "mind" than you do, because I've
been interested in Ivan Pavlov's "psycho-conditioning" than you do; I've studied that phenomena longer than you have been alive, so please don't tell me to be silent.

I've been blessed with a curious, yet skeptical brain, all of my adult lfe. I have had a varied and complex life-style; I hope it continues until the day I die.

I like you, consider you a friend,
because you've always been honest with me; I see no trickery or
deception; No Taqiyya!

Your Friend Rory... has friends that have steered him to a wrong path; therefore I cannot trust him.

Caveat Emptor: Rory is not an asset to your blogsite.

If Mohamed would summon up the Courage to End The Debate With Zionism & PALESTINE - that's a Fadly favorite subject - I would deem it a special honor to record,
On Memorial Parade Post, your views on that very complex subject.

Your friend, reb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

When I wish to know more about EMP
(Electro-Magnetic Pulse) I can always go to my son-in-law to get the complete correct answer. reb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Now, in the sunset of my years...

it is possible that my primary purpose in life, is to inform others.

A noble ambition, don't you think?

reb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mohamed said...

Sure, Mr.reb. It's a great noble target, But..

sometimes, after we walk whole our lives in a path, in an enlightenment moment, we found out that we took the wrong path, we look behind; "How were we wrong!!"

I respect your wise words; To listen carefully when you don't know, is the esssence of learning.
You're completely right. But who to listen to?!! Who to believe?!!

I won't say only listen to me, or listen to Muslims, but I'll say instead; Don't Just Listen To One Side.. Listen To Both Sides, The Muslim & Non-Muslim. Then You can Judge. But Only Listening To One Extremist Side, It's Not A Good Listening.

I know what you may be thinking right now; "Didn't I allow Mr. Fadly and Mr. Amillenialist to talk freely on my blog? I was listening carefully!"

No, That's not what I mean. I meant surfing the websites and watching the news. I could found out through following many of your comments that you quote incidents that you watch in the news about oppressing women, bombings in public, etc. Also, you link for sites that attack Islam.

But I never read one comment of you talking about a Saudi Muslim woman being honored for some success she made, or a Muslim female scientist being celebrated for her scientific achievements, or a Muslim female author with her books published everywhere, etc. I didn't find some comments by you about a Muslim peaceful demonstration in Europe or Arab countries, or a Muslim youth group giving a hand in Denmark for those who offended all Islamic nation, or about Islamic Organiztaions denouncing attacking innocents, etc. I didn't see any sign that you visit any Islamic websites moderated by Muslims.

That's what I mean. Fairness, Neutrality and Balance. About the true listening to both sides, not just hosting a humble debate between two opposing sides.

Mr. reb,
If you really want to listen carefully, if you really want to know more about that religion that is misunderstood in many countries, you can go to the nearest library, search for a book written by a Muslim talking about the greatness of his religion. You can give a visit to the nearest Islamic center and have books from them. You can watch movies talking about Islam. You can visit Islamic websites. That's the right path to know more about Islam.

Mr. reb, I'm a Law student, I believe in the principle of the evidence and the counter-evidence. Listening to accusations, without hearing the accused.. It's so unjust.

If you want to follow that path. Here you some recommendations;

Recommended Islamic websites:
IslamOnLine.net
Sultan.org
DiscoverIslam.com

Recommended Movies:
[The Message]
[Lion Of The Desert] (Both with the participation of Anthony Quinn and Irene Papas, and directed by the Egyptian director Mustafa Akkad)
[Kingdom of Heaven]
You can order them on Amazon.com, or download them from the web..

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

My friend Mohamed,

What you say has the ring of truth.

I Trust You, after many, many months of listening, analysing your words, I did not detect any clever deception.

Now, you want me to trust other muslim sources? Watch movies, read books? Find "IslamOnLine, Sultan, and Discover Islam." Are you serious? There are only so many hours in each day. I spend many hours each day on this computer now, doing my best.

I do not trust Saudi Arabia;
that King Abdullah (a Sunni) follows the path of Domination of All Other Faiths, with his Council of American-Islamic Relations. He builds 2000 foreign mosques, to dominate & convert gullible Americans!

Do you want me to trust this old tyrant too? He has absolute dominion over...who lives & who dies...he allows heads, hands & feet to be chopped off in Saudi Arabia; he rules with Terror, and I will never trust this man, whether George Bush likes him or not. Can't you understand that?

Oil wealth gives that beast power...and Absolute Power
Corrupts Absolutely!

reb
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_________________________________

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

What are you talking about?!!

Who talked about King Adbullah, Oil Wealth, tyrants, etc?!! I invited you to a very different thing. To visit websites, read books and watch movies.

I can't understand the relation between my comment and your response..

>>

Mr. reb, When I want to know more about America, I go to Americans, I ask an American, I read books written by Americans, I visit American websites. I don't go to Russians, I don't ask a Russian, I don't read books written by Russians, I don't visit Russian websites.

You got my point?

And that's the same with any non-Muslim living in a non-Muslim country that want to know more about Islam and Muslims. He should go to Muslims, ask Muslims, read books by Muslim authors, and visit Muslim websites.

That's how we learn.

Ears, Eyes and a Brain, these are our tools for knowledge. Reading a book, visiting a website, and watching a movie. I wonder why you refuse to do that, these books, websites and movies will not bite you. :)

You yourself said that you ask your son-in-law when you want to know more about Nuclear Physics.

What about collecting information about a whole civilization, a whole culture, a whole religion. Would listing to one humble Muslim law student be satisfying? Would listening to a Christian person be satisfying to know more about Islam? OR you should listen beside this and that to Muslim scholars talking about their religion?

Mr. reb, I remembered now a story about a man who came to prophet Muhammad with a damaged eye accusing another man to damage his eye, but the prophet refused to judge for him until he listens to the accused one. The man wondered why the prophet didn't judge for him. The prophet said that he may have damaged both eyes of the accused man.

Can you see the message of this story?
Even if you would think that "It's so clear", you must listen to the other side. That's justice.

Mr. reb, I hope that you got my message.

We're given the mind to judge on things, to make our own perspectives by ourselves, not just to repeat what was told to us.

I'm ready to mail you the DVD for any of these movies if you gave me your address, and you can visit by yourself the websites I told you about.

Regards,

Mohamed

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed,

a) You Refuse...to conclude your 'debate views' of Palestine (on Memorial Parade post) with "those zionist occupiers"...

they had occupied, and had primary rights to that land 1,000 years before Prophet Mohammad was born!)

b) You Refuse to discuss American concerns about the sneaky-sly Infiltration of Saudi Oil Wealth Funding C.A.I.R., or your own Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood's Activities here in the U.S., or the other muslim propaganda groups
that clearly wish to destroy our 1st Amendment Freedoms Of Religious Choice?

c) You ask this old man to spend hours, weeks & months absorbing well-crafted apologetic propaganda, designed to hide the
1400 years of violent evidence in Europe, Asia, and on the African Continent?

d) I am not favorably impressed with your "perfect man, the Prophet Mohammad" "peace be upon him"...In Your "Holy Qur'an & Hadith" reveals him to be the perfect brutal assassin, a man given to bloody violence, ordering the Hand, Foot and Head-Chopping against any 'non-believer or polytheist'!

e) Those Terrorist Muslims that high-jacked the four planes and slaughtered 2,972 innocents on 9/11
were All SUNNI - Four were Egyptian
and 15 were Saudi Arabs. Deny that!

Usama bin Laden was a Muslim, a member of the Muslim Brotherhood - a firm believer, explain that.

What Kind of "Peaceful" Religion Is That?

It Is Now, and always has been, my
solemn obligation to help protect & defend our fundamental principles, as described in the U.S. Constitution, from all enemies, both local...or foreign.

That's The Obvious Evidence, and it's Overwhelming. No Movie, or Books, Articles, etc or Clever Propaganda Efforts Can Change The Indelible Facts.

reb
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

Give Mohamed and the rest of us who care about religion a break. Please.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

There you have it friends...

Another Interruption From An Irish Kibitzer, i.e. one who often offers unwanted advise.

Rory is always quick to point to 'The Christian Crusade Abuses' (there were many) but not a word about the Great Muslim Warrior, Saladin, The Muslim Crusader that invaded much of Europe and the Middle East, and the bloody trails he left in his wake; (these were equally abusive.)

See, 'A Concise History of the Crusades' by Thomas A. Madden, or -
SALADIN The WARRIOR, from 1164 to 1174 A.D. - He spent his energies killing opponents of Islam; in 1169
he built huge pyramids with human heads, and the "Nuizz" would climb to the summit to chant the call to prayer. That's another grisly face of Ancient "Holy Wars"!

>

Mohamed Fadly Is Always Welcome To Finish His Review...of those he calls 'The Unwelcome Israeli Occupiers in Palestine'.
>
Rory, you can easily provide your own "break" with a simple devise -

Totally Ignore This Old Man! reb
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

I'll bring you around to my way of thinking soon, and you will enjoy your old age!

Rory

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

When honesty is not appreciated, when "trusted" persons are not listened to. Then what an ugly world that we live in.

Extremism blinds our eyes, shut our minds.

Thousands of words won't work with you.

A final advice; Multiply your resources, don't restrict yourself.

Have a happy life,

Mohamed

SNAKE HUNTERS said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Thomas Jefferson, in my humble view
was our greatest thinker ever. Also our third president. The author of the Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776. Think about his words:

"Question with boldness even the existance of a God; because if there be one, He must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

Laminate it for your desk-tops, or repeat those words on al Jazeera or Saudi-Arabian TV...and muslims will cut your brave & foolish head off! reb (Print all 43 comments now).
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

You should hang out on Blog of Blogs for a while, myself and Moonlite will ease all your worries for you.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Hey, fellahs & girls, stop pounding on my casket, will ya! I ain't laid down yet. Besides, you don't have my brand of beer, and I'm not about to smoke ANYTHING that you suck on, laddie. That would fuzzy-up my clearly superior judgement!

You obviously enjoy those colorful hallucinations; so be nice to your neighborhood, and please, leave me to "rest in peace." reb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

To Become Aware Of Other Viewpoints

Is To Live The Fullness...

Of Your Own Potential! reb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mohamed said...

Mr .reb,

You want an "overwhemeling" evidence?!!

You really want it?!!

If yes, so please read carefully..


Narrated Abdullah bin Masud:
During the lifetime of the Prophet the moon was split into two parts and on that the Prophet said, "Bear witness (to thus)." Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 830


Narrated Anas:
That the Meccan people requested Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle, and so he showed them the splitting of the moon. Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 831


Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
The moon was split into two parts during the lifetime of the Prophet. Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 832:


Muslims believe that the moon was split into two parts, then reunited. Is there any evidence about that miracle?

Well, Follow the next;

>NASA.gov
>Search for: "A Lunar Rille Credit Apollo 10"
>Click on the 2nd search result.
and you made it.

Another easy way;
Click on the following link;
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap021029.html

The writer wonders; "What could cause a long indentation on the Moon?" that was first discovered 200 years ago by a small telescope. If it was caused by an earthquake or a volcano they wouldn't be puzzled that way!

Would it be the place of the reunion after the splitting of the moon?

Maybe!

Regards,

Mohamed

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed,

THE MOON is one reason for all life on this planet; without the lunar gravitational pull, there would be no mild & consistent summer, winter, spring & fall!

If there were no Moon to cause the
"mild wobble" Super-Wild Seasonal Changes would devastate the earth's surface with extremes of cold & heat, which would make life as we know it...impossible.

Consult Your Egyptian Lunar Astronomers!

We Should Deal With Facts, not a fanciful "maybe" for the truth.

reb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

moonlitetwine said...

SNAKEHUNTERS,

I hope you have a better understanding of the term, Taqiyya. I certainly do. This manner of behavior is not written, as such, in the newer versions of The Bible.

Thank you for posting my short comment, (if you do post it). SNAKEHUNTER does not allow any comments, such as my answer to his query: How do you feel about Global Jhahd?

Also, as I understand Rory, There is an ounce of Christian belief within him. He is honest. No Christian can truthfully say, "I have never had a single doubt about my faith, having walked in it for many years. I think faith points to truth, oftentimes. And truth isn't always just. No one can easily believe truth, injustice and faith unite together in order to right wrongs or to even explain as one voice. We are not meant to be perfect at all times. This might not make sense, but I hope it does a little bit.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Dear lady moonlitetwine,

None of us are perfect - We all have imperfections.

When your friend Rory attempts to slam me, I usually shrug it off with a gentle sarcasm.

I don't need this guy's foolishness
on our serious weblog. He should know that he would be more comfortable where freedom to say anything rude or nasty is encouraged.

Deep Personal Problems should not expect resolution on any blog.

I wish you both well. reb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

Stop Now!

I don't accept any insults directed to persons on my blog.

I won't delete your insult this time, but the next time it will be deleted without notification.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed,

I certainly meant no disrespect to
any of your guests; I think you know me well enough after our long and friendly association.

I simply would like them to stop
pestering my snake-hunters blog with their zero-value suggestions.

If you have any control over these
two, please ask them to permanently leave me in peace. reb

If you like, I will publish them for you to print, then you will fully understand. Talk to them!

reb
_________________________________

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

Let me please express my deep puzzle..

I wonder that you refuse personal insults that are directed to you, and you want to cut every contact with them, you don't allow them to comment on your blog, and you don't want to talk with them any other place. You want them to leave you in peace. All that when there is no discussion between you and them.

On the other side, you wonder why I left the argument with Amillinialist on your blog, you consider my leave as "unexplained", when that anonymous person is not just insulting me .. but he's insulting the things that are very holy to me. He don't have the least respect that any civilized person would have in a mind-exchange argument.

It's so unfair from you!

The same reasons why you want now to cut any contact with Rory and Moonlitetwine, are the same reasons why I don't like to continue the discussion with that Amillenilaist.

Please be balanced.

Mohamed

Urban_Underclass said...

Hi Muhamed,

I would like to support your comments on SNAKEHUNTERS blog, but he wont publish my comments no matter how polite and reasoned they are.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory,

I'll try once again. Commenting on ANY website, is not a "Fundamental Right"...

IT IS A "Privilege"...granted to reasonable people by the Blog Administrator.

IF a stubborn person insists on continuously violating the common-sense rules set by the creator of that blog, he/she risks banishment.

Even this polite old snake-hunter has been warned (once) never to use "reviles", or never to insult Mohamed's Guests!

If I should ever ignore Mohamed's Rules, or if I am given a 2nd warning, I shall never return.

I believe in "Rules Governing Conduct!" Am I wrong?

reb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

I often try to post perfectly polite, well mannered comments on your blog. I tried this evening. You don't publish them, as editor, if you were balanced, surely you would publish these and reject any that were obviously offensive. I am afraid you are a ... .

Roryu

Mohamed said...

Rory,

One great thing I learned from my Islamic religion, as a Muslim first and as a Law Student is to be always just.

I can remember the great verse;
"O ye who believe! .. let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. " 5:8

So, even if I don't approve all the ideas of Mr. reb, I must notify you that I don't accept personal insults on my blog. I told Mr. reb before, but I'll tell you too..

Reviles and insults do nothing to a civilized talk, but heating up the speech uselessly and emptying the discussion from its core .. and ended by creating foolish hatred among people. We're sons of one father, have many in common than the differences.

Regards,

Mohamed

Urban_Underclass said...

Muhamed,

To call Reb a hypocrite is just being honest. It is not foul language. It is the truth. There seems to be no possibility of dialog between us if he wont publish my comments, now you don't and neither of you comment on my uncensored blog. So goodbye. I am sorry, I am really disappointed, but I value freedom of speech.

Rory

Urban_Underclass said...

Furthermore Muhamed,

You allowed Reb to make this comment, you did not censor it, even though it is a slanderous lie,

"Go visit Blog Of Blogs, or their favorite PourquiPigPas; Why Not? See the filthy sleeze for yourself!

Now you visit our Blog of Blogs and tell me what the filthy sleeze is.

You and Reb suit each other.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

To Friend Mohamed Fadly,

It is a fond hope, that tomorrow's post on S/H Weblog, will not signal the end of our long and friendly association.

You, and the Amillennialist
have provided invaluable material for my own...often confused mind, to assimilate and resolve some very complex issues.

See "Indisputable Proof" (post) for
September 1, 2009. It may help your own research.

May Your Creator Bless You, And Help To Reveal...His Manifold Mysteries. reb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

moonlitetwine said...

Within the small confines of those we know, love, cherish, need to be around, live under one roof with or otherwise encounter, there is a message. That is what I believe.

As a woman, I wonder what the women in the lives of political or military tyrants do each day. I wonder if they, too, believe as I do.

moonlitetwine said...

Mohmad,

If I may interupt your entry and comments, what is Shariah law?

Looking the term up, I found it to be the religious laws of Islam. For example, being a woman and curous about women's rights under Shariah law, I found the sexual rights and sexual law, in general, to be somewhat similar to other religions' suggestions.

But, I have found there to be books and organizations against Shariah law. There are attempts here in the USA to outlaw Shariah law.

Do you know the reasons for such an attack against another's religion? Do you or your religious mentor know the reason for this?

moonlitetwine said...

Hope the finals are going well!!!

Don't forget to eat and sleep. :-)

Mohamed said...

Moonlitetwine,

Welcome to my blog!

About your question concerning Shariah law..

Yes, Shariah is the Islamic complete regulation for Muslims. The translation for Shariah is "Legislation". It organizes everything; the state, the society, the family and the individual's life. It's taken basically from the Qur'an and the traditions of prophet Muhammad.

>
I couldn't understand what you exactly meant by the sexual law. I hope that you clarify more.

>
About why there are books and organizations against Shariah law..

I think there are major reasons for that fighting against Shariah;

a) The deep misunderstanding of Islamic religion because of the violence made by the name of Islam. This lead to wrong thoughts about Islam and its Shriah, and to think that Islam justifies these attacks, however the truth is exactly the opposite.

b) The deep hole between Muslims and the West that lead to deep ignorance about Islamic civilization and traditions. That's our job to block that hole.

c) Maybe those who fight against Shariah have personal bad experiments with bad examples of Muslims who don't understand their own religion, so it lead them to the "Generalizition", and to think that all Muslims and Shriah are like the bad examples they met.

d) Maybe those fighters do understand Shariah, but they want to defame Islam to show their own faith as the best one.

I hope this answer helps you.

Regards,

Mohamed

moonlitetwine said...

Mohamed,

The entry below is from Wikipedia.org. It is under the classification of contemporary law and women's rights. Also, there is a disclaimer above that portion of the entry.


"In practice Sharia law has sometimes resulted in women living in fear or disadvantage. In instances of rape some authorities of Sharia law require for an allegation to be validated, victims must have four Muslim-Male witnesses to the crime or else the victims risk being charged with fornication or adultery.[106] In Yemen, Sharia law required compensation to be paid to the husband in the case of a 10 year old child bride who requested a divorce after rape and abuse[107] (the minimum age of marriage under Sharia law is sexual maturation[108])."

I am thinking about the text, in that it mentions how a woman must have so many witnesses to declare rape.

It has been my belief, that Egyptians, in particular, do not tolerate certain things, one being rape. As a college student, I had the occasion of living across the walkway from a family from Eygpt. This is the information she told me: that in Eygpt, they do not tolerate rape. She said, that the community will handle such instances, as a man raping anyone severely.

Mohamed, this is coflicting information. This indecency is known to be fact among Non-Muslims. So there is a great divide somewhere along truth and information on Wiki.

I also consider, you might not be wanting to write on such a subject with me. Perhaps, there is a way to change or correct Wikipedia...or at least make better clarifications.

Mohamed said...

Moonlitetwine,

These information are misguiding. The four witnesses are required to validate the allegation of the committing of Adultery, not the rape. But in rape, it's not about the four witnesses, but about proving the crime by any possible mean.

The difference between the two crimes is because of the nature of every crime. Adultery happens by the acceptance of the two parties, but rape is forcing the other party.

The punishment for a rapist is the following verse;
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; " 5:33

Recently in Saudi Arabia, there were a man who kidnapped a boy, raped him, killed him, killed the father. He was executed.

I hope that satisfies you. Don't hesitate to ask me about anything about Islam.

Fáilte :)

moonlitetwine said...

Thank you for the correction. Wikipedia is known to make errors. But, I haven't found other literature on the subject - just personal accounting and Wiki.

I live in the US, where rape is hard to prove, because of our open morals. Also,it is not really a genuine concern, overall, in my country. So, naturally, I'm very interested in learning and knowing about other cultures where rape is a big crime.

Urban_Underclass said...

Mohamed,

Nice of you to greet Moonlite with Fáilte, but she is americain and may not have understood (it is Irish for welcome),

Rory

Mohamed said...

Ah Rory,

I just knew that she is American, not Irish.

I was on flickr when I found the following;

Fáilte Mohamed Fadly!
Now you know how to greet people in Irish!


So, I thought it might be cool to greet an Irish in Irish.

Anyway, thanks for the correction.

Fáilte, ;)

Mohmaed

Urban_Underclass said...

No worries Mohamad, she has Irish ancestors anyway (but so do many Americans including The Greatest Muhammad Ali.

Rory

Mohamed said...

Rory,

Really? Muhammad Ali has Irish ancestors?!! I thought he's African!! He's a Muslim too, Right?

>
There is a question that must be answered by an Irish not any other one..

Why there is some kind of hatred between Americans and Irish people?!!

The reason why I ask such question is that I watched a movie before, I think its name was "Gangs of New York", something like that. It was during the war between North and South. I can remember that Americans were fighting against Irish with no real reason. I wondered why is that..
I think in another movie they showed that Americans hate Irish, and vice versa.

What is the reason for that?

Mohamed said...

Moonlitetwine,

It's shocking to know that rape is hard to prove in the US. I understand the atmosphere in the US and many European countries where boyfriend and girlfriend is just a normal thing, and the concept of husband and wife is retreating in these societies. That will necessarily lead to hardness in proving the rape, because there is no legal document to prove the relation between the boyfriend and girlfriend. So, if rape was committed, there is a possibility that it's just between a boyfriend and a girlfriend, not a rape.

Thanks to Allah, in Islamic societies we don't have such social problems. The concept of family is valued so much. We don't have boyfriend and girlfriend like what happen in the US and Europe.

>
Rape is a very disgusting crime in Islamic societies. There is a historical judgement in Egypt this year, when 11 criminals raped a woman, 10 will face the penalty of death, the 11th criminal will be sent to jail to pass a period of 15 years.

Regards,

Mohamed

Urban_Underclass said...

Mohamed,

Yes Muhammed Ali's grandfather came from County Clare in Ireland, obviously most of his ancestors were African American.

Irish and Americans get on very well usually. The Gangs of New York refers back to a time when there were many Irish immigrants arriving in New York and the 'Native Americans' (who were descendants of immigrants themselves) felt threatened by the Irish. It's one of my favorite films by the way.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed has felt it necessary to delete my comment of Sept 15th, and he has a fundamental right to do that...It's his blog!

It began like this:

"It is said that satan speaks with a forked-tongue..."

The viewer can read the rest of the text on our 'Indisputable Proof' (post).

Valid comments are welcome. reb
__________________________________

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

So why don't you publish any of my comments?

Rory

Urban_Underclass said...

Mohamed,

I forgot to say, yes Muhammad Ali is a Muslim, he converted to Islam after winning the world heavyweight championship in 1963.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cassius "Ali" Clay was a bit "light
in the head" and also light on his feet; when he often danced away from a tougher opponent, he got away with claiming...."I Am The Greatest!"

Compare him with George Foreman!

----

George Foreman, born Jan 10, 1949.
Twice World Champion Boxer - from 1973-74 then 20 years later (1994-95)
he regained the title, at age 45!

He still alive, is quite eloquent...doesn't mumble in retirement, in great physical shape in 2009, at 60 years young!

He's a Christian. reb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

While Foreman was great, an aging Ali beat Foreman in his prime. It's hardly Ali's fault he mumbles. How unsympathetic of you!

Rory

no_slappz said...

urban_underclass, you wrote:

"How many Islamic troops are stationed in Christian lands anywhere in the world?"

First, there are NO Christian lands in the sense you suggest. Other than the Vatican, there are no Christian countries. There are no Christian theocracies like there are Muslim theocracies.

The laws in the US and other leading nations derive from many sources. But NOT the Bible per se.

Second, almost all muslim nations, despite oil wealth, are poor. They are also technically backwards. There is no chance the uniformed military of a muslim nation is prepared to operate in non-muslim nations.

Third, Hezbollah is a muslim fighting force that operates outside its home state of Iran. However, in the usual cowardly fashion of muslims, both Hezbollah and Hamas blend in with civilians to hide their activities by putting innocent people in the line of fire. Muslims know that hiding among civilians deters US and Israeli forces.

On the other hand, muslim terrorists focus almost entirely on killing innocent civilians. That is their chief tactic for terrorizing people into submission.

Fourth, muslim terrorists do enter non-muslim countries for the purpose of killing innocent civilians. It is easy for muslim terrorists to slip into democratic, free nations and kill people. Muslim terrorists have been doing it for many years.

Hence, there are de facto muslim soldiers in "Christian" countries around the world. The numbers are unknown.

You wrote:

"Compare that to the number of Christian troops stationed all over the middle east."

The US military is a secular organization. It is undoubtedly true that the majority of personnel in the US military have Christian roots. But all personnel serve the US -- not a religion.

The inability to separate religion and government is possibly the biggest problem impairing the lives of muslims.

no_slappz said...

Muhammad Ali, formerly known as Cassius Clay, converted to Islam in the 1960s, shortly before he was drafted into the US Army.

He joined the Nation of Islam, which is an anti-white, offensively racist organization headed by Louis Farrakhan.

Ali was a dupe for the Nation of Islam. The organization realized he was an easy target and used him for years. Very sad.