Feb 6, 2010

Good Belief, Bad Believers

If anyone asked me; Did Islam tell Muslims to kill non-Muslims? A direct answer will be "No", but many wouldn't be satisfied by such one word answer for such question when they witness violent attacks being committed by the name of Islam, and many of those who commit these violent attacks pretend to be Muslims, and even use Qur'anic verses to justify their crimes. Many non-Muslims who don't have actual knowledge about Qur'an and Islamic texts would have a wrong perspective that Islam told Muslims to kill non-Muslims when they witness such violence being committed by the name of Islam and by persons who pretend to be Muslims, specifically when those criminals use Qur'anic verses.
That's why I'll focus through this article on the answer of the question; Did Islam tell Muslims to kill non-Muslims? and will try to clarify the confusion about some verses that maybe wrongly thought to contradict the true essence of Islam.
Islam and Muslims are just like any other religion or philosophy and the believers in it. The religion or the philosophy may preach the best morals, but the believers themselves maybe "bad believers". They will think that they are good persons, applying the principles of their religion or philosophy, they will even find some text or historical incident in their ancient books to justify their personal beliefs, but they are actually contradicting what their religion really preaches.
Christianity and Crusades for example. Christians were fighting by the name of the Bible, since 1096 until 1270 there were several military campaigns by Christians generally against Muslims. They burnt many cities over their way from Europe to Jerusalem, thousands of civilians were killed by the name of the cross, many massacres were committed. The final result was the blood of many children and innocents were spilled on the "Holy Land", and many wars broke out by the name of the Christian belief. Other famous massacres were committed by the name of Christianity like; St. Bartholomew's Day massacre comitted by Catholics in 1572 when tens of thousands were murdered in Paris. Inquisitions during the 15th and 16th centuries when hundreds of thousands were burnt alive and tortured in Europe just because they were suspected of "Heresy", plus the Inquisition in Andalusia (Spain) when Millions of Muslims were forced to be baptized or executed or evacuated. Pope Gregory IX, Pope Sixtus IV, Pope Paul III, Pope Alexander II, Pope Urban II, Pope Innocent III are names of religious leaders who used Christianity to motivate the believers to war or to torture and execute hundreds of thousands.

If we just asked ourselves after witnessing all these bloody wars and all the blood spilled by the name of Christianity; Did Christianity tell Christians to do that? A quick and direct answer from a Christian believer will be; "No". His answer may appear unconvincing when the popes themselves were motivating soldiers to kill, and Inquisition soldiers to burn people alive and torture them, and when we hear Biblical verses used to justify these bloody wars like; "And when the LORD thy God delivereth it into thy hand, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword; 14. but the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take for a prey unto thyself; .. 16. Howbeit of the cities of these peoples, that the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth, 17. but thou shalt utterly destroy them:" Bible: Deuteronomy, Chapter 20. We'd be more puzzled about the true essence of Christianity.

Christianity in its true essence preaches love and peace. "Love your enemies" is the message that Jesus came by and invited to all his life. Crusades and corrupted popes used their belief to achieve political goals and to gain more power and domination over peoples. Those "bad believers", if we were to call them like that, are not the true examples of Christianity, they are just examples for themselves.

It's not so different with Islamic religion and the bad believers in it. Islam in its essence preaches love, peace, justice, coexistence, respect for the other and good morals. But there are "bad believers" in Islam who pretend to be "good believers", who think that they are executing the principles of Islam. They blowup themselves in civil places, they spread threat messages, they kill by the name of Islam and use Islamic texts to justify their crimes. Does that necessarily mean that Islam tell Muslims to do that? Absolutely no.

Islam invited Muslims to treat non-Muslims as human beings, to deal kindly and justly with non-Muslims, and to provide safe shelter for their lives, property and their worship places. The following are verses from Qur'an (The Holy Book for Muslims) and Hadith (Sayings of Prophet Muhammad) about how Shari'a (Islamic law) regulated the relation between Muslims and non-Muslims..

*Allah has created all mankind, Muslims and non-Muslims, all are sons of Adam and Eve, and Islam tells that all humans are honored. About sons of Adam, Allah says in Qur'an: "We have honoured the sons of Adam; provided them with transport on land and sea; given them for sustenance things good and pure; and conferred on them special favours, above a great part of our creation." 17:70

*Islam tells Muslims that they should respect the feelings of non-Muslims. In debates, Islam tells Muslims to: "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)." 29:46
In another Qur'anic verse, a very high example of equity, justice and respect to the beliefs of non-Muslims. Allah has said in Qur'an:"Say (O Muhammad to polytheist, pagans): "Who gives you sustenance, from the heavens and the earth?" Say: "It is Allah. and certain it is that either we or ye are on right guidance or in manifest error!"" 34:24 The verse is ended by highlighting that which is known (the Muslims following guidance, while the unbelievers are in error) as if it were a matter that could be doubted. In doing so, Allah emphasizes the truth by allowing the reader to draw his own conclusion. He does not state in this verse who is the group following guidance and who is not. This use of language is a means of treating the opponent in debate with justice, by presenting the argument, and allowing the listener to judge.
Allah ordered Muslims not to insult non-Muslims: "Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus have We made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord, and We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did." 6:108

*Islam doesn't force anyone to be a Muslim. Allah says in Qur'an to His Prophet: ".. thy duty is to make (the Message) reach them: it is our part to call them to account." 13:40 It's not the duty of the Prophet to make people convert to Islam, all his duty is to make the message and words of Allah reach them. A duty to make others listen to the Prophet, not to force them to believe in what he says.
In another verse Allah has said: "If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou (O Muhammad) then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!" 10:99.
And of course the great verse: "There is no compulsion in religion." 2:256 This verse was revealed concerning some of the Muslim men of the Medina; when Islam came to them, they had adult children who were Jews or Christians. They tried to compel them to embrace the new religion, so this verse was revealed to prevent them from doing so. So, it's not permissible for any Muslim to force anyone, even his children the dearest to his heart and the the ones whom they want the best for, to embrace Islamic religion. The American scholar, Edwin Calgary explained this verse by saying: "There is a noble verse in the Qur'an that is filled with truth and wisdom, and it is known to all Muslims. Everyone else should know it as well; it is the one that says that there is no compulsion in religion."

*Under Islamic rule, Islamic law not only gives freedom of the choice of religion for non-Muslims, but in addition it facilitates practicing religious duties and preserve their worship place. Allah said in Qur'an: ".. Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will). " 22:40

*Islamic regulation requires that Muslims should be just with everyone even the enemies: "O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do." 5:8

*And about the security of non-Muslims' lives, Allah says in Qur'an: "On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. ..." 5:32
And "Nor take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law)." 17:33
And it's narrated in Sahih Bukhari that Prophet Muhammad said: "Whoever kills a person whom we have a treaty will not even come closer enough to Paradise to smell its scent, and its scent can be found at a distance of forty years travel."

*And about protecting their property, it has been narrated in Musnad al-Imam Ahmed that the Prophet said: "You must know that it is not lawful for you to take the property of the People of the Covenant unless it is [in payment] for something."
Thinking of it, both the people "whom we have a treaty" and "People of the Covenant" include -in our modern history- all the states around the world, when it is a fact that 192 of the 203 states of the world are members in the United Nations. In other words, Islamic law forbids killing (bombing, suicide bombing, shooting) of civil non-Muslims in all states of the world, and stealing their property. A suicidal bomber in civil places -according to what Prophet Muhammad said- will not even come closer enough to Paradise to smell its scent.

*In war times, if a non-Muslim whom Muslims are fighting against asked for asylum, Qur'an tells Muslims to grant him asylum: "If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge." 9:6

*About how to deal with non-Muslims in general, Allah said: "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just. * Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong." 60:8,9 In his interpretation for this verse, Imam al-Qurafi defines "dealing kindly" as follows: "Gentleness towards the weak, fulfilling the needs of the poor, feeding the hungry, providing clothing to cover them, and soft speech with them. This must be done with affection and mercy, not in a spirit of intimidation and degradation. [Further], tolerating the fact that they may be noxious neighbors whom you could force to move, but you do not, out of kindness towards them, not out of fear or economic motives. Also, praying that they receive guidance, and join the ranks of those blessed with eternal reward, advising them virtuously in all worldly and spiritual matters, protecting their reputation if they are exposed to slander, and defense of their property, families, rights and concerns. They must be assisted in resisting oppression and getting access to their rights." Imam al-Qurafi was one of the Maliki Imams who lived in Egypt -with Copts- and died in 84th Hijri year.


Well, if Islamic principles are that good, just, merciful and reasonable .. an honest question would arise that need an honest answer; Why Islam looks so bad nowadays?

Personally, I think there are three major factors that generate the bad propaganda about Islam..

The first of these factors is the Bad Believers in Islamic religion. Extremists who kill by the name of Islam, those who do not understand Islamic principles of mercy and justice, who follow what their regional custom says not what Islam says. They originally grow up in an environment that doesn't really understand Islamic true principles, and consequently they don't understand true Islamic principles too. They don't actually represent Islam, but only represent themselves. Extremists exist in every religion, Islam too has extremists.

The second factor is Extremist Media of the West. Focusing on the bad examples, ignoring the good examples, that is what I am talking about. It is widely common to hear in the American and European news about an individual Muslim who killed so-and-so, but it's so uncommon to hear about a Muslim group that organized a coexistence conference. One thing that always made me wonder that a guest of my blog always tell about a lunatic father who killed his daughter, or an extremist who killed random victims, but he is amazed when I tell him about "A Common Word" conference that gathers Muslim and Christian religious leaders in Washington to discuss about ways of understanding each other, or a wonderful experience of coexistence among Muslims and Jews in Virginia. It's well known for many that Muslims, after the crisis of Danish cartoons on 2005, that angry Muslim demonstrations around the world broke out and Danish flags were burnt and the embassy in Beirut was attacked, but very few in the West hear about the peaceful talk conference in Denmark lead by Amr Khaled, Tarek Swidan and Habib Gafri, the three Muslim scholars who have wide fame among Muslim Arab youth, with Danish youth. A Western citizen will hear in the news headlines about the fanatic Muslim who blow himself up in a crowded place and will watch many TV shows about the "coming danger" and will hear analysts talking about why he did that, but will a Western citizen hear about a Muslim scholar who made a discovery or a Muslim woman who wrote a good book? The common Muslim names in Western Media are: Bin Laden, Zawahri, Zarqawi not Ahmed Zewail, Farouk el-Baz, Naguib Mahfouz, Aisha Abd al-Rahman, Qaradawi, Muhammad al-Ghazaly, Ali Gomaa. For all of that, through all this bias, Western Media is an effective factor in generating hatred against Muslims and forming a corrupted perspective about Islam.

The third factor is strongly related to the second one and is the one I stated in the beginning of the article, i.e. the misunderstanding of some verses of the Qur'an. There are extremist Western writers who twist the verses of Qur'an, sayings of Prophet Muhammad and historical incidents to present a corrupted perspective about Islam. Many websites over the web are involved in that.
In general, the verses that extremist Western writers present as "the absolute evidence about Islamic terrorism" are the verses that talk about fighting. There are various reasons for fighting or for making Jihad according to Islamic law;
a) As response to a act of aggression, as stated in Qur'an: "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors." 2:190
b) As a penalty for those who break a treaty or violate a truce, as mentioned in Qur'an: "But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith,- fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained." 9:12
c) As a deterrent to those who prevent missionaries of the faith from travelling to the people, as stated in Qur'an: "And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression." 2:193
d) To assist people who are being oppressed, with the goal of reliving their oppression, as Allah said: "And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"" 4:75
e) Enforcing peace against the transgressor when two parties conflict, as said in Qur'an: "If two parties among the Believers fall into a quarrel, make ye peace between them: but if one of them transgresses beyond bounds against the other then fight ye (all) against the one that transgresses until it complies with the command of Allah; but if it complies then make peace between them with justice and be fair: for Allah loves those who are fair (and just)." 49:8

The five reasons of making Jihad are the main reasons that any state in our recent age would make an action for. a) Self-Defense when attacked, b) Response to violating truces among states, c) Fighting against states that restrict freedom of religion, d) Providing the help for people under oppression from other stronger states, e) Fighting against conflicting states that refuse to make peace.

There are some verses in Qur'an that maybe misunderstood if read out of their textual and historical context..
One of the famous verses is 191th verse of the 2nd Chapter of Qur'an that says: "And slay them wherever ye catch them"
First of all, and a basic rule in reading any religious text, we must read it in its both textual and historical context. If this didn't happen, the religious text will be misunderstood. Consequently, I'll state here the whole verse and few verses before and after this verse to focus on the real context of this verse..
"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. * And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. * But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. * And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression. * The prohibited month for the prohibited month,- and so for all things prohibited,- there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves." 2:190-194
Do these verses give a free permission for Muslims to kill non-Muslims wherever Muslims catch them? These verses were revealed by Allah to Prophet Muhammad at the time when Muslims were attacked by the pagans of Makkah on a regular basis. They were frightening the Muslim community of Madinah. They tortured and killed tens of Muslims and expropriated their property when they were in Mecca. One may say, using the contemporary jargon, that there were constant terrorist attacks on Muslims, and in this situation Muslims were given permission to fight back the "terrorists". This can be easily realized when noticing in more than part of these verses the mention of the attacks make by the pagans and that Muslims are just fighting back. It's noticed in: "turn them out from where they have Turned you out" and "fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression" and "but if they cease, Let there be no hostility". These verses are not a permission for "terrorism", but a warning against "terrorists". But even in these warnings, one can readily see how much restraint and care is emphasized. It is important that we study the religious texts in their proper context. When these texts are not read in their proper textual and historical contexts, they can be easily manipulated and distorted. It is true that some extremist Muslims manipulate these verses for their own goals. But this is not only with Islamic texts, it is also true with the texts of other religions (as mentioned above).
On the other hand, one can see how the verses give restrictions on fighting back those who attack and terrorize Muslims. a) "Fight .. those who fight you" b) "Do not transgress limits" c) "Fight them not at the Sacred Mosque" d) "If they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.".

Conclusion:
Islamic religion did not come to oppress and terrorize, but it came to spread safety, justice, love and mercy. Those extremists who kill by the name of Islam have the same logic of those who killed over the centuries by the name of Christianity or Judaism. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all three divine messages revealed from the One God, the Creator, Most Gracious and Most Merciful. God who created all mankind and made them all equal but according to piety. He created all of us; Jews, Christians, Muslims Buddhists, atheists, etc and only ordered us to be kind and merciful to each other according to our human relationships. It is only the extremists who distorted His true words to achieve their personal corrupted desires. Those are not just the enemies of Jews, or just the enemies of Christians, or just the enemies of Muslims, instead, they are the enemies of all of us .. enemies of humankind.

---------------
Resources:
-"The Rights Of Non-Muslims In The Islamic World" by Saleh Hussain Al-Aayed, translated by Alexandra Alosh (WAMY)

77 comments:

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

Will you ever stop talking that way that does not benefit you? You don't give yourself a minute to think .. if Islam is that bad why the number of converters is increasing even in America, or .... it's actually not bad. It's just lies that Westerns hear about Islam. If I challenged you to prove what you claim about Islam, you'll fail, but I don't want to embarrass you.

You wondered about who inspired Taliban to bomb a school. I don't have an answer. But I want to add another wonderment: Bombing a bus, then bombing the hospital where the victims of the first bomb were transfered to. Are they the enemies of only Jews, or only Christians, or only Muslims, or only Buddhists, or only Americans, or only Arabs, or only Russians .. or they are the enemies of all humankind?

All what I know is that those who did that barbaric crime, are not just vicious criminals, but they aren't even humans. Those must be executed without any mercy.

Mohamed said...

Ah, by the way, did you, snake hunters, read the post before commenting. I guess not..

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - Yes I read it. Why did you delete the first comment? (I might publish it on Snake Hunters!)

If you published any falsity, that might have reflected badly on me!

reb
_____________________

Mohamed said...

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

That's simply why I delete your comments.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Some Good Belief, some bad believers. (A great title!)
>
Yes, I would certainly agree with that title or remark. I would agree that moderate Muslims are choosing the right path.

Also, Imams that urge young folks to use a suicide bomb on innocent muslims, and blow up girls schools in any Muslim nation...are very bad.

Moderates need more publication.

Are we getting closer to agreement
on the basic fundamentals? - reb

Urban_Underclass said...

Mahomed,

I a having trouble reading this post, my mind is distracted this week, but I may have a question on the subject of Jihad and freedom of religion.

I am about 2/3 of the way through the post now, should finish it later today or tomorrow.

Reb,

Publish your unpublished comments on SNAKEHUNTERS, all your charming friends will love them. But I don't think anyone from this blog, blog of blogs or pourquoi pas? will be reading it.

Rory

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

Yes, Moderate need more publication. Ask your Media why they hide them. Did you hear in your news about Ali Gomaa when he came to Washington, or you only heard about him on this blog? This bias need to be fought against.

Are we getting closer to agreement on the basic fundamentals?

Through my Blog Archive, try to find the 1st post from me on this blog, and red it well. This may answer your question.

Mohamed said...

Rory,

Don't trouble yourself, read it whenever you have the time, and provide your comment whenever you like. In fact, as I was writing the post, I thought; "It's too long, who will have the patience to read all of it." It's 9.5 pages on a word file!

Your questions about Jihad and freedom of religion are welcomed anytime.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

OPINION:
_ _ _ _ _

Mohamed - I read the full nine pages, and was impressed with your writing skills, so I printed them for subsequent review.

I was also first to comment--and you deleted it... it's O.K., I understand, that's your privilege, it's your turf.

A Deliberate Lie, Coming From A Negative Scoundrel, Is Cold As An Ice-cube, And Will Melt In The Bright Sunlight Of Truth!
>
On The Subject of 'Moderation', I don't believe it to be just a "Western Bias" that restricts publication, but the sensational daily bombings & violence against the innocent people that captures the headlines, and holds public attention around the world.

When you ban fine thinkers like Sir No_Slappz or Amillennialist, you will lose the dynamic power of "controversy", and that alone wound stimulate more traffic to your weblog (and mine!)

Let the Liars Have Their Say, then shoot down their arguments with your Brand-of-Truth, if you believe you have it. Also, Ban the personal ad-hominum attacks...
(A S/H Tenet)-

"The Truth Shall Set You Free!"

reb
__________________________________

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

You hypocrite, you really are shameless, you write "Ban the personal ad-hominum attacks...", yet on my last ever visit to your blog, you posted a nasty, totally unprovoked and slanderous attack on Stiletto from the Pourquoi Pas? blog.

To paraphrase our lord, 'before you point out the speck in Mahomad's eye, why not remove the beam from you own'

Rory

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

Also you are always trying to generate 'traffic' through your blog. How many people do you think want to read endless hate and bile, boring repetition of the same old rubbish, with no dissenting voice allowed.

Who wants to rub shoulders with a bunch of hateful bigots like yourself and No_Slappz and Amillienniest?

This blog is not about traffic volume, it is to educate and discuss. Like Mahomed, I doubt that you ever read his post or watch the video's he recommends. You just come here to spread hatred.

Blog of Blogs make no particular attempt to generate 'traffic' yet we get quite a diverse and interesting range of visitors from around the world. I like to think this is because we have several contributors with different points of view and a totally free and open comments policy.

We don't seem to have any problem with bad language in our comments section, I wonder why that is?

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - (1) I did not address my opinion to you, but I get the usual personal attack.

(2) On "Stiletto" - She openly slanders the Israeli people at every opportunity, using filthy language. Who needs that? (It's there that you might find Loop-Garoo, and he shares your dislike for the Snake-Hunter. "Birds of a Feather, flock together."

(3) You might notice that Mohamed never does that, and never posts a comment on PorkiePas. It's a sleazy, hate-filled playground for people that enjoy slumming and self-deception.

(4) Mohamed is a blogger that seeks to inform the non-believer;
Snake Hunter, also runs an Information Blog.

(5) When you chronically preach only hatred, you demean yourself in the eyes of your loyal friends.

Re-read your words! - reb

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

I'm confused,

Stiletto hates Israel
The Loop Garoo Kid loves Israel

Yet they are both to be found on Pourquoi Pas?
How are they 'birds of a feather'?

Is it not that Pourquoi Pas?, like this blog and Blog of Blogs allow for free and open discussion, unlike your censored, boring blog.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - Yes, I've noticed your confusion; I'll attempt to explain it again.

a) Stiletto, is a hard-core survival person from a tough business, she now hates Jews; perhaps it was a pimp boyfriend that introduced her to the prostitution racket (that's just a wild guess, ask her). I consider her a victim; it's a cruel world.

b) Loop Garoo has a Jewish heritage, defends Israel because they are the only real democracy in the Middle East (that's why I tolerated him, and you dislike him).

c) "Birds flock together" for different reasons, to find
common ground, and share their dislikes and/or mindless hatreds; odd friendships on PourquoiPas, don't you think?

d) Loop Garoo & I clashed when he attempted to use my blog for a chatroom with Aunty Em. I warned them, then was forced to delete.
Now Loop claims that I "control, and edit, and censor him!" Hah!

e) Mr S***Stirrer sent vile stuff to S/H Comment Section for Five long months! He was persistent, finally stopped. That ended my preferred Two Years of 'Open Forum' Policy.

Two Sleaze-bags changed my weblog!

My "moderated" blog is now an irritant for Loop Garoo & Rory. Is this helpful in clearing up the confusion?
>
Now Rory, would you please allow Mohamed & I to continue with our Feb 7th conversation without further interruption? All future confusion is better handled on your BlogOfBlogs.

reb
__________________________________

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - I have a legitimate question; the language barrier makes serious study difficult.

I would be grateful if you would give me a full definition of > >

mujahada

mujahadeen

Thank you. - reb

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

You said; When you ban fine thinkers like Sir No_Slappz or Amillennialist, you will lose the dynamic power of "controversy", and that alone wound stimulate more traffic to your weblog (and mine!) Let the Liars Have Their Say, then shoot down their arguments with your Brand-of-Truth, if you believe you have it. Also, Ban the personal ad-hominum attacks...

Well, that depends on if they are truly fine thinkers or not. As for no_slappz, he is for me a wired guy. He thinks that all the world must see porn sites to make an advancement. He sent me twice porn links! I'm not going to waste my time with him. He asks questions, but he isn't waiting for answers.
And about the anonymous "Amillennialist". He/She's a a fanatic Christian who wants to defame Islam using anyway. He/She twists verses of Qur'an out of their historical and textual context to convince readers of false things. He/She ignores my evidences. He/She ignores what his own corrupted Holy Book says about killing people and ..".. smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword; 14. but the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take for a prey unto thyself; .. 16. .. shalt save alive nothing that breatheth, 17. but thou shalt utterly destroy them" Yes, he/she have read a lot about Islam, but he didn't "read to know", but "read to defame". He cannot make a civilized talk. My time is precious to be wasted with him/her.

I would let the liars have their say then refute their claims, if those liars want to discuss. If they don't, if they just want to throw their stones, then run away, then my blog isn't the good place for that. I want a courageous opponent who can answer the call of civilized talk, who can do both duties of a civilized talker, TO TALK ONCE, TO LISTEN TWICE.
On the other hand, the major lies are already "shoot down" whether on this blog, or on Islamic websites. They just do not want to read.

You said too; Ban the personal ad-hominum attacks.

However I agree with you that some of Pourquoi Pas? blog visitors use bad words (I myself was filtering them). But on the other side, I agree with Rory on what he said. You're allowing personal attacks and bad words on your own blog from your friends. But on the other side, you ban "clean" comments from others whom you don't like as Rory and mine. Try to be moderate yourself, before asking others to be.

>
Now, about your question about Mujahada, and Mujahadeen.

Mujahada is another word for Jihad. They have the same meaning.

Mujahadeen is the group for Mujahed, which is the one who practices Jihad.

Satisfied?

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - i know it's difficult to completely "satisfy" the 'Inquiring Mind'...

a) On No_Slappz, I'm surprized to learn of the Porno message; perhaps he did that in response to your critical review of his opinions; I cannot say.

b) Ad-Hominum Personal Attacks: I must confess that I've foolishly been tempted to use them also, in response to a vicious attack from some "dim bulbs" landing in our Comment Section; (it's another reason why I now "moderate or control" the incoming remarks).

c) On Rory Stafford; I tend to deal more kindly with Rory because he has multiple problems that I'll not discuss here, except to say that I've withheld his most filthy remarks (without deleting them.) That's also why I never respond to PorkiePas members. If anyone opens that gate, he then trades insults with many unhappy people! Who needs it?

d) On the subject of "Mujahada" I have another authoritive source on that subject; when I find it, I'll get back to you. - reb
__________________________________

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

Rory is a respectful friend, and he has a clean way of talking, not like others. He says angry words ONLY when he is provoked by foolishness of some commenters. He's a normal human who has emotions.

I respect him because he presents his perspectives respectfully regardless if he opposes me or not. And I respect him too because of sincerity and respect for his friends.

That's why you have to deal more kindly with Rory, not because of any other thing.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - I've Found It!

The Islamic Scholar, Nuh Ha Mim Keller who translated the classic book on Shari'a Law, "Reliance of the Traveler." The book states in Section 09.0, "Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and it is derived from the word "mujahada"
signifying warfare to establish the religion."
>>
There we have it from a well-known authority. - reb

www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com
__________________________________

Mohamed said...

Jihad doesn't mean to war against non-Muslims. Jihad means struggle, to make all your efforts.

Urban_Underclass said...

Mahomed,

Thanks for this post it must have taken a lot of work. Sadly that brings me to my first criticism. It is way too long.

I follow many blogs, some written by successful professional writers, none ever post more than one or two thousand words at a time. People will simply not sit at a computer and read for several hours without pause.

Few will print out a post to read at their leisure and even fewer will do what I did and return to the post and read it over four sessions.

The fact that Reb was so quick to comment leads me to suspect that he did not read the post.

Now, I will try to remember my question...it is so hard to find the exact quote I wanted to question.

Anyway one of the reasons for making Jihad, if people will not let missionaries work in their land.

This may be fair enough, but can you imagine how my life would be if I tried to live as a Christian in Saudi Arabia, even without doing missionary work?

Regards,

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Or, a Coptic Christian Family native-borne in Egypt! - reb
__________________________________

Mohamed said...

Rory,

You're right in your criticism. I wanted to make it more briefed, but I couldn't. I'll try in my future posts, at least to make people read my pots. :)

About your question. In fact I can't myself answer you. My two visits to Saudi Arabia weren't enough to realize how a Christian would live there. But I know that there is no churches there. And there are very few Christians. Most of the Christian minority are the employees in companies there. In general and according to the little I know, I think that Christians can live there the same as they may live in any other country except for practicing their worship and building Churches, when it's not allowed to build Churches or Temples there. Maybe it's because of the exclusiveness of this place as it's where the revelation was received, where most of the Islamic major historical events happened there, and there is the Ka'ba that all Muslims around the world direct their faces 5 times a day. To understand this legislation just try to imagine a mosque built inside the state of Vatican!

If I cannot tell you about Saudi Arabia. I can tell you about another Arabian gulf state, Bahrain. I visited Bahrain various times, and stayed there for weeks. There you cannot actually know the religion of the one who you meet in the street or the salesman in a shop. Is he a Muslim? Is he Christian, Buddhist, Hindu? I couldn't witness a difference in treatment according to religion. I saw there worship places for Christians. It was close to my residence.

I can tell you too about the life of Christians in Egypt. They have their churches around the country. They freely practice their worship. Sometimes I hear their singing in my home. I had Christian neighbors. They have friendly relations with us as neighbors.

You know? Today, I saw in the street a nun with her traditional grey dress and covered hair, and a question jumped to my mind: How did Islam tell me to deal with this old woman? In fact, the answer that I remember is how we should deal with them in war times. Before sending armies, Caliphs were telling the soldiers that they will find people who devoted themselves for monastery life, and that they should leave them alone with their devotions. I did't have to search for the answer about how we should deal in peace times!

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Simple Lies & Complex Truth

Solution:

No major religions equals...
No Religious Wars! - reb
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Mohamed said...

.. or a good research to understand the truth.

Anonymous said...

Mohamed,

Hello. Let me comment on the length of this entry.

It is long. And, I can see the problem you might have had in its placement on your blog.

In trying to make a comparative composition, the entry seems perfect. It's a wonderful piece.

I know you have made comparative entries in the past. They were shorter and less involved; fewer subject areas covered.

If you build a series of entries, it would reduce the size of this particular entry. Regular followers will be able to understand your skill set and be able to read along throughout the progression of your research. If comments get too negative, it's time to move on to your next entry.

So, break apart facts.
Compare each sequence.
Use examples, stories may be.
Give the readers time to chat.

Also, increase tactile knowledge, appealing to the senses.

These are mere suggestions. They are based on a learning model.

moonlitetwine

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

There It Is Again!!

A person with little impact advising a skilled blogger on how to run his publication.

Loop Garoo, Aunty Em & Valerie did the same thing on Snake Hunters...I suggested that they get their own blog, and see if they can do better.
>
The length an sequence of the posted items should rightfully be the privilege of the Blog-Owner!

His Effort, His Domain! - reb
__________________________________

Mohamed said...

moonlite,

I appreciate your advices. I wrote them down in my small book-note.

The way of series posts worked in the past. I may follow it again.

moonlitetwine said...

As a teacher, it was a nice way to cover a unit.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - Since you are a proud Egyptian, and follow the history of...
the great Pharaoh civilization, I thought you might enjoy this!

AKA.NA.TAN, possible Father of King Tut! This 3300 yr old mummy was found in Tomb 55, recently!

wa.a.en.ra

See: U.S. TV History Channel for...
"King Tut Unwrapped" - reb
_________________________________

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - If not found, try...

Discovery Channel. - reb
_________________________________

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

What's your trick now?

Thanks for the information, but I don't have to see an American TV channel to know about my own history.

If you want to know more about my Pharaoh history I can tell you..

According to DNA analysis, and as pronounced by Zahi Hawas, Akhnaton(4th Amenhotob) is the father of Tut Ankh Amon, and his grandfather is 3rd Amenhotob. Akhnaton is known to be the first Pharaohonic who invited to monotheism and to give up the worship of the idol Amon and all other idols that was worshiped by ancient Egyptian people.
Tut Ankh Amon is known as the Young King for his early death. It was believed that he was killed, but it has been proven according to recent researches that he wasn't killed, but died because of the Malaria.

You can watch your Discovery for more information if you like.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed Asks -- > What's my trick?

I like history, and 'Discovery & History' Channels and my two most enjoyable Tv spots; also hopping around to other blogs, to view some very interesting people, and analyse their mind-set. The mind is a sponge, and you can find some wild notions. You are just one of the interesting people I've met in my four years of blogging!
>
My trick? Well, O.K., I'll Confess... BEHOLD! Some day, I hope to get enough billionaire support for - Agnosticism - to capture the whole world, turn all of these casual & ignorant souls into...

AGNOSTICS (Just like Me!)

Anyone that dares to disagree, I'll
chill 'em, I'll mutilate their bodies, I'll Kill 'Em, And Enslave 'Em, "until they feel themselves vanquished!"

Then I'll Convert 'Em and become the GRAND POOHBAH, and you Mohamed, can become my "First & Last...Agnostic Prophet"

"Reb the First" (That's my trick; then I'll be Reincarnated, Yeah.
(That's my Second Trick.)

Stop Laughing, Mohamed!

Then, there will be 'peace & love' in the valley, and free Candy, and Cake & Ice Cream, and Perpetual Virgins, and Singing/Dancing Gypsy Belly-Dancing, For Everyone...

and the non-believers will be banished from my kingdom! To hell with them, I'll say (Thumbs Down)

Let Ol' Beelzebub roast them on an open fire, for ever and ever, and that's their heavy punishment in the Hereafter, (that's eternity, Mohamed).

Did you like my tricks? - reb
_________________________________

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

After knowing you for years, I don't wonder that you think that the only way to spread your Agnostic belief is through these barbaric ways of killing, mutilating, enslaving and banishing non-agnostics from you neighborhood.

Shame you.

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

After re-thinking about it..

I should have guessed it very early that you have a sick way of thinking about how to make people embrace your Agnostic belief ...

You believe that killing hundreds of thousands was just an act of war, you can find a dozen justifications to convince others how it was ok to kill those hundreds of thousands of civilians.

You believe too that killing hundreds of children within 22 days is not a big deal. It was just "Self-Defense".

When you have a sick mind that justify killing hundreds of thousands of children and innocents, the I won't wonder if you said that you wish to mutilate, kill and enslave those who don't embrace you Agnostic belief.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - Please show me where I can find, in any history book, where agnostics have killed, raped and enslaved captives, cut off hands & feet from opposite
sides, or forced conversions of anyone, in any land, anywhere.

You cannot!

Agnostics - "justifying killing hundreds of thousands of children and innocents"!! Where? Where?

Again, you cannot!

Now, Mohamed...I've learned about your "Gentle Muslim Art-form" -- it's "Taqiyya" -- a clever deception, to trick an opponent into accepting a belief. Well, two can play that game! (Thanks for the lesson.)
>
Here's another lesson - Consult your English/Arab Dictionary; look up -- > agnostic, (it's a noun), then satire, (it's a noun). -

Did you appreciate this lesson? - reb
__________________________

Mohamed said...

Wow, your memory is weak these days!

You yourself said that you hope to get enough billionaire support for - Agnosticism - to capture the whole world, turn all of these casual & ignorant souls into...AGNOSTICS ...
Anyone that dares to disagree, I'll chill 'em, I'll mutilate their bodies, I'll Kill 'Em, And Enslave 'Em, "until they feel themselves vanquished!" Then I'll Convert 'Em and become the GRAND POOHBAH, and you Mohamed, can become my "First & Last...Agnostic Prophet" .. and the non-believers will be banished from my kingdom!


You said that. Didn't you? Or there is someone impersonating your nickname. Maybe he's a Mossad member. They are very clever at impersonating identities, and killing people in safe countries. They are your friends, right?

You wondered: Agnostics - "justifying killing hundreds of thousands of children and innocents"!! Where? Where?

I'll ask you then: What is your opinion about the only use of Nukes in the history by your own "merciful" country that caused the immediate death of hundreds of thousands and the maiming of other thousands .. Is it..
a) Unforgivable, bloody and barbaric crime.
or
b) Can be justified.

Answer this simple question, and you'll know by yourself the answer for your question "Agnostics - "justifying killing hundreds of thousands of children and innocents"!! Where? Where?"

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

You see that comment just was not funny, satire is no excuse. I suspect that you were drinking when you wrote it.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - Agnostic is a word that you should become familiar with; it has nothing to do with war.
>
Agnostic, noun {Greek, agnostos}, unknown, unknowable: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as a creator-god) is unknowable, impossible to prove.
>
>
People that are ignorant of WWII, believe that it began in Europe, in the late 1930's. That's false!

The Warlords of Japan moved troops into Manchuria in 1931; then into Nanking, China in 1937, where peasant-farmers were murdered and enslaved and brutally treated to feed Japan's Imperial Army.

Much later, a most powerful imperial navy attacked Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, sinking half of the U.S. Pacific Fleet (at anchor) in 2 hours! December 7, 1941.

Then, The Japanese War Lords joined
with Nazi Germany, a great Land & Air Military Force pushing throughout Europe, toward the dream of world conquest!

This Axis of Evil were responsible for WWII, where an estimated fifty million people (mostly civilians) died.

The U.S.A quickly "Mobilized Our Manufacturing Plants into War Plants, and became known as the "Arsenal of Democracy", to supply the "Allies" i.e British & Russian, Canadian & Australian, and a recruited civilian U.S. force of 15 million young civilians...to train for war!

How do I know this? I volunteered to be a soldier at 18 yrs in 1943; I didn't read it in a book...I was there for nearly three years.

Your Egyptian Schools should teach
accurate world history to avoid the ignorance that you display; (it's not your fault.)

Your madrassa focus is clearly on glorifying Islam, nothing about WWII History.

The Nuke Bombs quickly, and with mercy, ended the mass slaughter of innocent lives! Since that time, Japan & Germany have been Peaceful & Productive Nations for 65 years...Ask yourself, Why?
>
Now, Iran enriches Uranium for their A-Bombs to bring back the Madhi Prophet, the 12th Imam.
>
George Washington said, "If we desire to secure peace, we must at all times, be ready for war!"

Mohamed's Accusation that the United States of America was the Villain of WWII is both Insulting, and Ignorant...in the extreme!

reb
______________________________

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Hello Rory. You two fellows get your heads together, and try hard to find one single mistake in this very brief summary of WWII.
>
I'll bet a quid & a pint you can't!

reb
__________________________________

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

Yes, thats the justification I told you about. You call it "WITH MERCY".

What is that?
The Nuke Bombs.
What did they do?
They Killed hundreds of thousands of civilians.

You call it mercy, you even didn't call it a necessity or an excessive act that America had to do, No, you call it "mercy". I call it barbarism, bloody act, genocide.

Here is an Agnostic "justifying killing hundreds of thousands of children and innocents". Yes, it's YOU.

Admit it or not, Y.O.U A.R.E J.U.S.T.F.I.Y.I.N.G K.I.L.L.I.N.G H.U.N.D.R.E.D.S O.F T.H.O.U.S.A.N.D.S O.F C.H.I.L.D.R.E.N A.N.D I.N.N.O.C.E.N.T.S

--

Another thing..

You quoted what your American president said; "If we desire to secure peace, we must at all times, be ready for war!"

Well, I believe in that too. My Holy Book, the Qur'an said;

"Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.
* But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah. for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). "


Yes, if Muslims desire peace, they must be at all the times, be ready for war.
Be strong => All the enemies will be afraid of attacking you.
Be weak => You'll be up for grabs.

BUT REMEMBER..
"If the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah."

Mohamed said...

++++
The verses quoted in the previous comment are the 60th and the 61th of the 8th verse in Qur'an.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - This is proof that we can never have an honest discussion
(or an honest debate) here on your blog.

* I shared an item about Pharaoh civilization, and you called it 'a trick'.

* I offered an accurate summary of
WWII, and you pull out one word -'mercy' - and deleted the full text! That's deceitful & very dishonest, and you should be ashamed of such behavior.

* War statisticians say that we would have lost between 200,000 to 300,000 American troops to secure that island nation with air, sea, and landing ships, with a "conventional warfare."

The Japanese civilian population would have suffered at least 2,000,000 dead, plus many more wounded, at war's termination. Our Navy was very strong in 1945, the Japanese Imperial Navy was at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean, and their Mitsubishi & Zero Aircraft were totally destroyed! Their fuel supplies were gone; food was lacking in some areas, we had total control of the sea and skies by summer of 1945.

President Harry Truman made that decision to terminate the land war quickly. I believe it was merciful for the Americans, and for the Japanese, to drop those two terrible weapons on two industrial towns, rather than on Tokyo. Do you disagree? Then say it, Mohamed.
>
You can delete my words (it's your blog) - You can speculate or spin it any way you like; that's your decision, Mohamed. - reb {Print}
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb, Mohamed,

I'm confused, has a comment been edited or deleted?
Personally, while I think Reb's summary of WWII is quite accurate I think it was wrong to drop the atom bombs. Like the bombing of North Vietnam in the early 1970s it seems totally out of proportion with what was needed.

I was watching a documentary on the Pentagon Papers and there are tape recordings of Nixon saying he wanted to nuke North Vietnam and Kissenger telling him the public would never accept it.

Both of you say it is necessary to be ready for war, but it seems to me that if a country has a big army and a lot of weapons and then gets a bloodthirsty government in place it could do a lot of damage.

"He will rule over the nations and settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not raise sword against nation; they will train for war no more."

Isaiah 2.4

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - Open & Civil Discussion Between Reasonable Men Requires A Set Of "Rules of Order" such as in a Debate Format.

Snake Hunters Weblog Tried It Only Once, Between Mohamed Fadly & Sir Amillennialist on 'Memorial Parade' {post}...(over 50 comments recorded), there was no precise limit on length; (that was reb's mistake!) Strict rules on (a) limiting "who" is permitted to comment (no outside hecklers permitted), (b) with a concise 500 word limitation, (c) no personal (ad hominums) or dirty language allowed, and (d) each participant given equal treatment & respect (without unfair deletion), (e) any change in the above rules, or the adding of another participant, must have a Unanimous Agreement!

Adherence to the above, could develop into a format of long duration...and true value!
>
>
Memorial Parade Post Is (Once Again) Available For A Round-Table Discussion; The Invited Guests Are:

* Rory Stafford (Wexford, Ireland)
* Mohamed Fadly (Tanta, Egypt)
* Snake-Hunter (Eastern Tennessee)

Subject: - WWII, The Two Bombs -
..
reb
_____________________________

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

I am not sure why you keep inviting people back to the Memorial Day Parade Post, but as far as I am concerned, it is not going to happen.

Remember last time you invited me back to your blog, no censorship if I kept my comments clean and all that?

Then you bring up in an insulting manner a blog where I happen to have some friends, for no reason, nothing to do with the discussion that was going on.

Then I briefly and using very moderate tone and language defend that blog and you warn me that I am taking up space. Saying in other words, behave or you will be censored.

I can only presume you were doing it to show off to your friends and I can only presume that the same thing will happen again this time. (It happens every time).

So, no thank you, I shall decline your invitation to the debate on the memorial day parade post.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - I'm sorry that you misread the invitation; it was not for the purposes of a debate at all. It was in the nature of 3-way "Round-Table Polite Discussion" from
very different perspectives...and it contained specific rules governing the conduct of all three participants.

Where can we find a better set of rules?

Read it again! It was in answer to brother Mohamed's insulting statement about the two U.S. nuke bombs dropped on the two industrial towns of Hiroshima and Nagasaki to end WWII. I believe Truman made the proper decision, and I stand ready to defend it!

I would never mention your friends
at PP, unless you bring them into the discussion; that would, of course, force a legitimate response. I've never had a desire to comment there just to trade insults, and slander opposing views with crude remarks & vulgarity. We've read their stuff.

It's always much better to stay focused on the subject matter whenever possible, add a dash of humor, and get on with the purpose of informing curious people about politics, religion, and I stand ever ready to correct the many mistaken views of U.S. history & war.

(That's why I blog.)

So far, I've been treated fairly on BlogOfBlogs, and it seems a good place for people to share differing opinions; that's obviously no longer the case here on Understanding Islam, where I am often deleted for an opposing view.

Memorial Parade {post} is long dormant, with no outside comments; a perfect place for a common sense, peaceful discussion with no hecklers allowed.

It's your choice, whatever you decide.
_ _ _

Now, it's time for me to do a little "blog-hopping", see you fellows later. - reb
_________________________________

Mohamed said...

Rory,

There is no deleted comments. It's just the same way of Ralph of distorting us away from the subject. I only delete his comments that contain lies about Islam. I would leave them if they were out of his own mouth and he's saying hem to open a civilized discussion, but either they're out of his mouth, he's just repeating what he reads from his fanatic friends, and nor he want to discuss, actually he cannot, because he don't have the knowledge that make him capable of saying and hearing.

I agree with you that if a country was ready to war be good arsenal, then a bloodthirsty government became in control, things may go wrong. I don't have a solution for that. We could witness many examples across history of horrible things. Dropping the two nuclear bombs was just an example.
But I believe on the other side that a country without good arsenal in this crazy world will be ruined and attacked by other powerful countries. Just see Iraq and the American invasion in 2003, if they had nuclear bombs and powerful arsenal, Americans would never dared to attack Iraqis.

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

No, thanks. I don't have that so much time to hear justifications for killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, in response of an attack on military targets in America. It's not accepted according to my morals to accept targeting women, children and civilians, in revenge of targeting soldiers. I cannot swallow hearing justifications for attacking civil places, in revenge for attacking military harbour.

You don't have to discuss with me and you, you can make a post. Name it; "How we Americans revenmged by killing Japanese civilians for killing our American soldiers." or a more nice name would be; "Our soliders, NEVER. Their children and women, YES, Yes, yes". Discuss it with your fanatic friends who feel sympathy for killing three civil Israelis, but they swallow killing 418 child, 108 woman and 88 elderly of Palestinians. That's what gather you and your friends, BIAS.

Have a good time discussing how Americans killed hundreds of thousands in a flash.

With Best Regards,

Mohamed

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - There It Is! I've printed it
out for an unbiased examination of
Mohamed's words, and mine.

#1: M.Fadly, February 25th.

"There is no deleted comments", then
"I only delete comments that contain lies about Islam."
>
#2: M. Fadly, February 26th.

"How we Americans revenged killing (of) Japanese civilians for killing our American soldiers."
>
That was the false statement that I had hoped to discuss in the "Round-table Open Discussion" -
>
Historical Truth: WWII was the most brutal war in human history with over 50 million dead, mostly civilians, in 12 nations!

a) The fundamental blame rests with Nazi Germany & Imperial Japan.

b) The Russians lost an estimated 25,000,000 civilians!

c) President Harry Truman had the awesome responsiblibily to end it quickly with two nukes over Hiroshima & Nagasaki -- or allow it to continue with "conventional warfare", costing many more Japanese civilian casualties, plus more American casualties.

d) I believe Truman made the proper decision.

e) The Snake-Hunter defends it.

f) Mohamed Fadly does not have the back-bone to openly discuss it. He prefers to delete my comments!

reb -- > {print}
_______________________________

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

Instead of the bla bla, if you want a discussion, make a post. Your friends will amuse it. You may even convince other guests of your blog that killing hundreds of thousands of civil Japanese in a few seconds was "mercy" as you believe.

Shame all those who justify killing children and women.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

- A Matter of Credibility -

Mohamed Fadly, Understanding Islam blogger, and Rory Stafford, an honest Irish Socialist (BlogOf Blogs) were invited to participate in a 3-way 'Open Forum Discussion' to discuss WWII, and the use of two nuclear weapons to quickly end that grim war. This old Snake Hunter was anxious and ready to defend the USA.

Hundreds of hours of film in the Russian winter of '45, plus the Nazi-German Concentration Camps (that killed millions of Jews) all on firm; the Allied Landings in Normandy, thru France and into the heart of Germany, etc All on Film. Then, when the European lands were free, American Forces could turn full attention to the Pacific War, it's all on film. Historical facts do not lie. The vast documentation is irrefutable!
>
Rory politely declined.
>
Mohamed continues on, with a Muslim Propaganda Tirade against the USA, does not wants his distortions of historical facts to be witnessed by anyone. Mohamed should read the facts from German books, or French, Belgium,
Austrailia or New Zealand libraries, or even Wikipedia.
>
If Snake Hunter or Amillennialist quotes directly from the Holy Qur'an M. Fadly cries foul, says it's all "out-of-context", and then he bans fine authors like
Sir "A" or Sir_ No-Slappz, and deletes parts of Snake Hunters words, to cover up his distortions.
>
It's All a Matter of Credibility!

reb
__________________________________

Anonymous said...

___________________________________

"I have sworn upon the alter of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." - Thomas Jefferson
_____________________
___________________________________

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

SYNTHESES OF U.S. HISTORY

On July 4, 1776, 56 brave colonists, yearning to be free from old european kings, dictators and theological monarchs, dipped their quill-pens in ink, to sign a unique parchment, entitled... the
'declaration of independence' from past entanglements, and dedicating their lives, their fortunes and sacred honor, to a totally new system of self-governance...the first true republic!

Thank you Thomas Jefferson (our 3rd president) and thanks once again to our Founding Fathers!

Eighty-seven years later, Abraham Lincoln (our 16th president) shocked the civilized world in 1863 with the Emancipation Proclamation, setting in motion the eventual ending of human slavery in north america...forever!

Read the "Bill of Rights" and the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution, for an accurate, and more complete understanding of "how and why" this nation became the most honorable, yet imperfect, nation in human history, but also the most
innovative, inventive and freedom-loving system ever devised, and why...the oppressed people everywhere, yearn desperately for these same liberties.
>
Thank you Mohamed, for being so indulgent of this old fool. - reb
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

Here's an offer you can't refuse...

Why don't you do a guest post on Blog of Blogs on the atomic bombs dropped on Japan and we can all debate it there. You can bring along all your warmonger friends.

Blog of Blogs rules apply so no comments deleted, moderated or forgotten ever so be careful what you write or you may be psychoanalyzed by pHd students for decades to come.

Obviously being a fair minded man I will link the post you your blog so you will get some extra traffic.

The ball is in your court Reb.

Rory

Mohamed said...

Rory,

Great offer. This way we'll be sure that Ralph will never distort, split or hide comments that are valuable to be read. He did that with me before on his moderated blog.

We'll see what will he say.

Urban_Underclass said...

Mohamed,

Sadly I am sure he will find an excuse not to take up my fair and honest offer.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - Each of us have our own perspectives and methods of conducting interviews, and Rory's 'open system' allows anyone to participate, including his friends at PP -- They are more interested spreading hatred of Israel, using dirty language to ridicule opposing views, and trading insults. It's what they do.
>
Mohamed has a singular objective - promoting Islam - yet, he tends to ignore centuries of Islamic destruction of Hindu Temples, the slaughter of the natives of India, the recent suicide-bombings in the Capital city of Mumbai (Bombay), or - muslim killing muslims - in Iraq, Afganistan & Pakistan, and using slurs, calling S/H a "Liar", and saying that the USA wants to "kill women & children"...such inane rubbish!

Mohamed finds no fault in any direct quotes from the Holy Qur'an, or from Apostle Muhammad's abrogation of the earlier quotes that complement Jews, in favor of later quotes that treat their blood-brother Jews as "Infidels requiring subjugation, slavery, rape, and slaughter until they "feel themselves subdued" as referenced in Qur'an 9:29
>
>
I've spent four yrs attempting to deliver an Informative Weblog, with factual historical data.

That's a huge policy difference.

Consult S/H Web Links for more factual information on world events.

Re-read the > Fair & Balanced S/H Policy - in that Mohamed vs Sir Amillennialist Debate. No hecklers
were allowed to interrupt the participants.

Re-read the S/H's U.S. History Lesson on Feb 27th, 10:12 PM - Have your "Phd Friends" search hard for an error.

I would trust any freedom-loving person with a fondness for 'Liberty & Justice For All', over Kings or Dictators, Anytime.

I would trust the beleaguered Jews over Islam's Grand Ayatollah and their mythical Persian 12th Imam.

Even Saudi King Abdullah is skeptical of that routine.
>
Rory - I return your mud-ball to your side of the court. - reb
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Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

The verse 29 of Surah 9 states what means the following;

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "

There is no requiring subjugation, slavery, rape, and slaughter as you said. That's why I call you a liar. When I say that you are a liar, it's not to be considered as a revile, it's telling you what you are. YOU ARE A LIAR, that's you.

And about your list; he tends to ignore ..

-centuries of Islamic destruction of Hindu Temples. I didn't know before that there were "Islamic" destruction of Hindu temples. Was it a reaction for the humiliation of Hindi Muslims and destroying mosques? Or was it an action from extremist rulers?

-the slaughter of the natives of India. Oh, I always thought it's your European ancestors who annihilated Millions and Millions of native Indians of the American continent. White Men VS Red Indians. Your ancestors converted them from a people spread over the country, into a minority residence. Barbaric!

-the recent suicide-bombings in the Capital city of Mumbai (Bombay). Let me correct your minor information. They were't suicide bombings, they were coordinate bombings, plus grenades and automatic guns used by terrorists, that caused the death of 173 innocents.

-muslim killing muslims. It sadly happens in many countries and religions. It happened in Europe in the Inquisitions when Protestants were being systematically killed. Catholics were killing Orthodox. South was killing North, and vice versa in America.

Urban_Underclass said...

Mohamed,

I think Reb just said no,with his usual flurry of insults thrown in for good measure.

Oh well, he's afraid I guess.

Rory

Mohamed said...

Rory,

I agree. He cannot make a civilized and evidence-based conversation. He's just good at insulting others and distorting comments on his blog.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory & Mohamed choose to spin historical reality to fit their own personal, irrational notions.

We were not talking about the few dozen small, native tribes that occupied that...vast wilderness continent...in the 16th and 17th centuries. Ask any native-american-indian today, about our current laws, and how they feel about their Indian Casino Wealth today!

(In our senior years, we retired on April 22, 1998 from the Viejas Casino in San Diego, and Chief Anthony Pico was our wise & valued friend, cetainly not our enemy.) Tad Safer was our "Pit Boss", and he's still there, so check it out;
see if reb tells you lies.

Mohamed & Rory continue to distort truth, to ignore 1400 years of Islamic predations, to change all non-believing nations into muslim subjects. That's their goal in today's Europe, and around the entire world. It's an Islamic, Blood-soaked, Suicidal Crusade!

IF that is Islam's goal, then have the courage to say so...if it is more convenient, then deny it.

Personal attacks on this old man, is foolishness; accomplishes nothing, your positions seem weak, gutless, and without merit.

Stop ignoring the reasons for Lincoln's 'Emancipation Proclamation' to end Slavery Forever, in North America.

The Holy Qur'an encourages the killing of opposing soldiers, then taking their wives as 'sex slaves' and breeding stock, thusly to the lie of "converting the children" into muslims! Read the 1400 year history of these muslim predations and forced conversions in our Link,

- Thoughts of a National Indian -
See Islam's Creed - Convert or Die! by dharmaveer.

Wake Up, World!!!
>
>
Then dare to come back here, to Rory's BlogOfBlogs (he doesn't delete), or take a gamble here, with Mohamed's Singluar Viewpoints, or to Snake Hunter's Blog...for some more solid, useful information. - Cheerio lads!

reb
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SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Gentlemen - Many hours have past, with no response, Hmmm.

Well, here's more factual things for you to ridicule. You don't attack

a) the aforementioned U.S. Laws that offer freedom of choice to all
foreign immigrants..

b) dare not attack our Founding Fathers that gave this land the greatest set of rules governing conduct ever written (Compare to Shari'a Law)

c) or the Civil War, 1861-1865, fought to free us from Human Slavery, mostly by "white" soldiers on both sides..and today we have a black president, from a false Christian Church that praised
Islam's Louie Farrakhan's 'Nation of Islam'! (U.S. politics is a tricky business; now we know better, and we'll regain some dignity next Nov 2nd, Election Day!) Four-Star General Colin Powell would have been a far better choice (he's black too) but not a muslim sympathizer. He knows history too well to swallow that Madhi Prophet, 12th Imam fantasy) -
Even Fadly can't believe that one!

d) No Denial That Nazi Germany &
Imperial Japan were to blame for WWII, was there? Not a word, from either of you. Nothing at all!
>
The two of you prefer to attack the messenger, but not the message.
>
Ignor.ance of available documented U.S. History, and WWII (filmed and written)...is your loss, not mine.
_ _ _

Now, it's back to blog-hopping on our fine Links, where I learn new things every day! Cheer up guys, you could both stand an attitude change - grab a history book of WWII, and pray for the innocent victims of this current war, most of them are Muslim, men, women, children & crying babies too, killed & injured by suicide bombs, or used as shields. I've never heard of a Jew, hiding behind a woman's skirt, or wrapping a bomb on a girl to kill non-believers!

Pray for one-half of Iran. Those protesters, yelling "Death to the Dictator" in the streets of Tehran, and yearning to be free of Grand Ali Khomeinei and his little Sock-Puppet Ahmadinejad. Whoops!

Rory - Now that you've quit smoking...take the next big step,

Get a life!

reb
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Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

Another lie you liar. You said; The Holy Qur'an encourages the killing of opposing soldiers, then taking their wives as 'sex slaves'

You're a liar. Qur'an doesn't say so. It's Torah that said so in Deuteronomy, Chapter 20.

Watch your words. If you continue to tell lies, you'll be considered as persona non grata on this blog.

Urban_Underclass said...

Mohamed,

All Reb wants to do is spread hatred and lies. I do not understand why.

Rory

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

If the greatest men like Abraham, Jesus and Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Them) are named the worst names by the most ignorant persons, then we shouldn't give any attention to those ignorant persons. Just shut them up.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - Is it better to "shut them up"...or to allow them to speak? If evil & stupid people, or those with harmful intention are given an opportunity to speak false statements & negativity, give them more rope, and they'll hang themselves! The documented truth will convict them in the court of public opinion! -

That is why S/H blog is very reluctant to delete most people if they are Concise...and do not abuse our Comment Section with (a) long-winded material that says nothing of value, or (b) for a personal chat-room, or (c) personal attacks & name-calling, or (d) the worst type, that uses threats or vulgarity!

Who needs them?
>
>
Of course, all historical persons require publication (the good & the bad), but you missed one of the greatest minds in Human History...

Thomas Jefferson. - reb
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moonlitetwine said...

written lots of comments above:

everything about WWII is documented on film.

May be it is. Possibly not.

Mother Russia killed those of Jewish faith, including children at play. They came through towns and gunned down anyone looking Jewish at all.

The Third Reich burned books and destroyed the lives of teachers, writers and artists. This was among the first thing the Third Reich did.

I appreciate your bravity and your unto the end of time beating us on the head about mass murder of Jewish people in Nazi Germany and in the charitable territory of Palestine.

However, for my part you are now considered a zealot to me.

Now? You have decided to make mercy upon the people who nuked Japan. All being fair - should a pouting country nuke the USA?

You are inching close to being considered a warmonger too.

I have heard the debate: Had we the supplies and war power...but our military was depleted. Simple cause and effect?

Really.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Moonlite Lady - Thank you. When I attempted to respond with an accurate history summary of WWII, I received this message...

Your HTML cannot be accepted, must be at most 4,096 characters.
>
Do not try to communicate with me on Understanding Islam {post} again. Ask anything you like; I'll do my best on Rory's BlogOfBlogs. (Please try to refrain from worthless, anti-U.S. Rant.)

Did you like my 'Peaceful Buddhism' comments?

One question at a time. Thank you.

reb
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SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - I'm sorry to know that your
BlogOfBlogs is discontinued. It had
a valid purpose in permitting freedom of speech & thought...for anyone, even a grumpy old snake-hunter!

Enjoy your music, and those precious dogs! - reb
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Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

It is intact and offline. I may put it back again, since people seem to miss it.

Rory

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

It is intact and offline. I may put it back again, since people seem to miss it.

Rory

Urban_Underclass said...

Reb,

It is intact and offline. I may put it back again, since people seem to miss it.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

In the first sentence on this Post; "Did Islam tell muslims to kill non-muslims?" Friend Mohamed answered "No"...and the Holy Qur'an said Yes!

"Fight and slay the Pagans wherever
ye find them, and lie in wait for them with every strategm of war."

In another...the stone said, "there's a Jew hiding behind
me, so kill him!"

So I guess it's all a matter of interpretation, right? - reb

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

The post has answered your quote from the Quran.

Your 2nd quote, the Hadith about the Jew hiding behind the stone is a prediction of what will happen at the end of time. It's called in Christian and Judaism belief as "War of Armageddon" when Jews or Christians will kill non-Jews or non-Christians. Am I telling a fantasy thing or it really exist in the Bible?

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - What you choose to believe, or disbelieve about ancient scripture in The Bible & The Qur'an is your business. If you slant any of it to fit Muslim Brotherhood teachings, that's sad.

Ahmadinejad says he believes in the return of the nine yr old Madhi Prophet, that's a problem for the Israeli to confont. That's probably what you mean with the "War of Armageddon".

Eventually, educated aware people from many nations should see through this 'War of Deceit' see vol 4, book 52, 269, and hopefully form an alliance to put an end to this ugly regime in Tehran.

The Saudi King doesn't like it, the Egyptian leadership certainly doesn't approve of a Persian hedgemony over the Middle East, and a young law student friend of mine doesn't have a simple solution to this mindless, swirling complexity either.

Just imagine a crazy Ayatollah controlling the Sunni Majority, and the Saudi Oil Reserves. That was a Saddam Hussein fantasy!

In the U.S., soon the people will again have the necessary majority
to stop this weak president, and his Chicago friends, return us to a solid 'two-party system' of governance; it does seem a bit more encouraging, for next November.

If Not, a grim nuclear war seems inevitable. The crazies want it!

The peaceniks feed the crocodile, in the hope of being eaten last.

reb
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SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - I am sad that your very fine blog has ended in 2010.
>>
Egypt is the most important nation in the entire middle east.
>>
This is February 11th, and also my
birthday... I'm 90 years old now, and soon must close snake hunters blog.
>>
I wanted to ask you about ISIS, and their extremely violent leader Al-Bagdadi, and his burning alive that Jordanian pilot... and King Abdullah flying jets to avenge this grim death.
>>
I wish goodwill and an enduring peace for you, and also for Rory.


reb - February 11, 2015
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