Dec 22, 2010

Sometimes .. a picture is worth a thousand words















95 comments:

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - Feel free to moderate or delete this comment...I will not object, or feel offended.
>
I searched back to 4/3/09 to your comment on "Now They Call Me Infidel" by Noni Darwich, and you challenged Mr R.E.B. "to give one evidence about our alleged Jew hatred culture. One verse in Qur'an, (or) one incident of the prophet or his fellows that tells Muslims to hate Jews. Can you give a verse or a Prophet's Hadith that tell Muslims to hate Jews?"
>
See: Bukhari 52:177 - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say, O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him!"
>>
I found about 109 verses that specifically deal with 'Violence' in > www.thereligionofpeace.com/
but I did not wish to irritate or enflame your anger; I would prefer continued polite discussion on BlogOfBlogs.

Your friend, reb
___ ___

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - So, as we have both seen,
there are clever cartoons from each side, giving propaganda values rather than truth, to appeal to the uninformed viewer. I prefer hard evidence, backed up with photographs to tell the complete story. Even then, absolute evidence is difficult for a person to believe, when it contradicts his own culture!

reb
___ ___

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

Please, don't fool me. You don't consider me your friend, at least by the meaning of "friend" for me.

Before I explain to you the Hadith you quoted above, I'm curious to ask: Did you start searching for the truth from neutral sources, at least from both Muslim and non-Muslim sources, or you still look by one eye?!!

Now, about the Hadith, I have explained it to you before, but I know you're amused of repeating your questions. I said to you the following:

About the Hadith of the Prophet Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:

Narrated Abu Huraira:Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

This is a prediction, not an order for Muslims to kill Jews. The Prophet told Muslims in many Hadith's about how the day of Judgement will be, what will happen during it, what natural disasters will happen, what wars will break out, who will fight against whom. One of these predictions is that Muslims will unite and fight against Jews. These predictions exist in all the three religions. In Torah we can find the prediction about Armageddon battle when the Messiah will return to earth to KILL anti-Christ with the help of Jews and Christians. It will happen at the end of time, before the day of Judgement.

The same man who said this prediction, i.e. Prophet Muhammad, had a Jewish neighbor whom he visited him when he was sick. He stood in respect for a passing funeral of a Jew. Are these the deeds of a man who want his followers to kill Jews?


It's not a hatred speech, it's a prophecy of what will happen at the End of time. Prophet Muhammad told us that before Judgement day, natural disasters will happen, he told us too that reasons will gather to lead to a war between Muslims and Jews, this will happen before Judgement day. It doesn't mean we shall fight them now. Do you want to know what Prophet Muhammad told us to do with Jews until Judgement day comes?!!

Ok, please read the following quotes carefully from Bukhari Hadith book, the same book you quoted from;

Volume 2, Book 23, Number 399:
Narrated 'Abdur Rahman bin Abi Laila:
Sahl bin Hunaif and Qais bin Sad were sitting in the city of Al-Qadisiya. A funeral procession passed in front of them and they stood up. They were told that funeral procession was of one of the inhabitants of the land i.e. of a non-believer, under the protection of Muslims. They said, "A funeral procession passed in front of the Prophet and he stood up. When he was told that it was the coffin of a Jew, he said, "Is it not a living being (soul)?"

Volume 3, Book 34, Number 282:
Narrated 'Aisha:
The Prophet purchased food grains from a Jew on credit and mortgaged his iron armor to him.

>>

Mohamed said...

Volume 3, Book 41, Number 581:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
When my father died he owed a Jew thirty Awsuq (of dates). I requested him to give me respite for repaying but he refused. I requested Allah's Apostle to intercede with the Jew. Allah's Apostle went to the Jew and asked him to accept the fruits of my trees in place of the debt but the Jew refused. Allah's Apostle entered the garden of the date-palms, wandering among the trees and ordered me (saying), "Pluck (the fruits) and give him his due." So, I plucked the fruits for him after the departure of Allah's Apostle and gave his thirty Awsuq, and still had seventeen Awsuq extra for myself. ..

Volume 3, Book 41, Number 599:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud:
.. I had common land with a Jew, and the Jew later on denied my ownership, so I took him to the Prophet who asked me whether I had a proof of my ownership. When I replied in the negative, the Prophet asked the Jew to take an oath. I said, "O Allah's Apostle! He will take an oath and deprive me of my property." So, Allah revealed the following verse: "Verily! Those who purchase a little gain at the cost of Allah's covenant and their oaths." (3.77)

You can search for more on the official site of University of Southern California, Religious texts part.

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/

They have done great job.

I ask you now, are these the actions of people who hate each other, or one people who coexist in one community?!! And when Muslims consider Prophet's life as the most valuable example for them, isn't it a clear order to "deal kindly and justly" with Jews?

Do you want to give any comment on this explanation?!!

Anonymous said...

Mohamed - Thank you for responding.

First, if you do not wish for me to refer to you as a "corresponding friend" after this much time, I will grant your wish, although it's my effort to establish a genial trust and confidence; so...I have failed before, many times.

Secondly, your explanation only leaves me more puzzled and confused, and I don't think I'm alone with this. IF your apostle says it's a 'prediction', then WHY didn't he just say it's a prediction?

Such obvious obfuscation makes it extremely difficult for ANY unbeliever to Understand Islam by reading exact quotes from Qur'an.

Are my words here clear enough...do you understand me?

I have read, then I re-read these passages in your book, and I read the 1400 yrs of Jihad History, in India and Europe, where invading armies are told - In Your Book - to slaughter BEFORE taking captives! See Qur'an 8:67

I remain, your honest, doubt-filled 'friendly acquaintance'.

reb
___ ___

Anonymous said...

Mohamed - Here are two more that I found that mention Jews:
>
Tabari 7:97 - The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the prophet declared, "Kill any Jew that falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. (It's here where he widens his scope with orders to "kill any Jew".)
>
Then, consider the Qurayza Jews, who were completely wiped out only five years after Muhammad arrived in Medina. Their leader opted to stay nuetral when their town was beseiged by a Meccan army, sent to take revenge for Muhammad's deadly caravan raids. This tribe killed no one on either side, and even surrendered peacefully after the Meccans were turned back. Yet the Prophet of Islam had every male member of the Qurayza beheaded, and every woman and child enslaved, even raping one of the captives himself (what apologists call a temporary or 'same day' type of a "marriage").
>
P.S. This type of research takes many hours, because I'm very slow now, and my fingers have arthritus (not good for typing).

Your friendly acquaintance, reb
___ ___

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

Irrelevant comments aren't welcomed here. Please hold on for an answer to your last anonymous comments.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...
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SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - O.K., Then I have a question for "Graycrow" (Rory Stafford of Wexford, Ireland):

Rory, do any of your muslim friends have an inquisitive thirst for U.S. or World History? Or, are they content only with the 1400 yrs of Islamic Struggle?

As Rory already knows, I research every day with a great passion for 'Historical Truth'.
>
Today, I typed into my Search-Line for the early history of our west coast to > "Missions of California" and Father Junipera Serra, and the Spanish "Kings Highway" then off to....the incredible story of an immigrant son of Italian Immigrants.

Type in this name:

A.P. Gianinni, founder of a tiny bank (Banco de Italia) in San Francisco, California in 1904, and after the disasterous earthquake in 1906 Gianinni won the affection of other immigrants by loaning money, not to wealthy people, but to other immigrants and other unfortunate folks hoping to rebuild their burnt out "city by the bay". All of the big banks were crippled by the combination of quake & fire damage, leaving only this young Italian to face the coming business risks!

Whatta Man!

In 1930 he change that name to Bank Of America, to eventually become one of the four great (non-oil) giants, along with Citigroup, J.P. Morgan and Wells Fargo!

reb
___ ___

Graycrow said...

Reb,

That's a nice story about an Italian living the now faded American Dream, but what is the point?

The man got lucky and trusted the ordinary people.

What is weird or wonderful about that?

Why is Alumpypigfest or Amillieniest or whatever his nickname (Hugh is much simpler) so quiet on your blog?

Mahomed,

Nice post.

Happy new year,

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - Why you choose to ridicule a scholar that has spent his adult life studying the middle-eastern complexities and judeo/christian beliefs, is far beyond my understanding. No Slappz (Andrew McCarthy) is from Irish heritage.

Each of us is very different, and our perspectives are based on these life experiences. Our nation was blessed with Irish immigrants because of a potato famine; others came here to escape oppression and persecutions in their home countries, and found many great opportunities here for their families in educational endevours, in the sciences, in law, and in businesses that were unavailable in their homeland during their life. We are a great melting-pot of cultures, ideals, and different races! My father was Scot/Irish, and my Mother's family from Austria/Hungary.

Read our 1st Amendment; It's a short, but power-packed single paragraph, written over two hundred years ago!

Since you did enjoy the Gianinni story, I would urge you to read the history of Oak Ridge Tennessee,
where you will find one of the most interesting stories that I've ever found, relating to the 20th Century. It was so well-written, that I printed and mailed the 14 pages, sending it to friends and relatives that do not have a computer!

IF..I have any value at this age, it's my 'moral obligation' to share this information that I've learned with my Windows XP, and my HP 6400 Printer! If we close the door on other beliefs, we cheate ourselves!

I know that your BlogOfBlogs, and Mohamed's "Understanding Islam" blog have serious motivations too.

Rory, type this into your Search-Line: Jay Searcy: My Nuclear
Childhood.

reb
___ ___

Mohamed said...

Rory,

Thank you, I wish you a happy year too. But it looks that it won't be a happy year for Egypt. Egyptians now are sad and shocked of the terrorist attack in Alexandria that killed 21 Egyptian and injured more than 75.
I wish the authorities can catch those who planned for it soon, this may make us a little comfortable.

Graycrow said...

Mahomed,

I am sorry to hear about the terror attack in your country. I don't follow the middle-eastern news very closely these days.

I am kept way too busy just tryinbg to keep up with Ireland, the UK and Europe.

I hope the year improves for you.

Rory

Reb,

Eh?

...and your point is?

my question (for Hugh and you) is...

...what is it that a Muslim does not possess?

I am still none the wiser.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - Muslims, Like Many Americans.. are focused mainly on themselves, unable to think or listen "outside the box" i.e. we humans believe we have sufficient knowledge without input from other good sources. Our own history, our own religion, our own political notions, etc. It's a human trait.

I try to avoid this, by reading and listening to people smarter than myself! It's not necessary that I agree with everything Amillennialist or No-Slappz say...
but I learn by listening to them.

"The wisest mind has something yet to learn!" - (Laminate that for your desk, my cyber friend.) - reb
___ ___

Graycrow said...

Reb,

Fair comment, but I again refer back to your own blog and the recent artice that Amillennialist wrote.

What is it that a Muslim does not possess?

Why can't you guys give a straight answer to a simple question?

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - Simple Answer: Muslims, Americans AND Irishmen too, Do Not "POSSESS" A Mentality Capable of...

THINKING BEYOND THEIR EARLY TRAINING...!!!

(a) Our friend Mohamed Is Stuck With 'The Muslim Brotherhood'...

(b) Friend Rory in 'Socialism'...

(c) Foolish Americans are stuck for the last 50 years in Legalizing
Pot & Hallucinagens, plus their Addiction to Over-Amplified Guitars..The Beatles, The Stones, Jefferson Airplane, Janice Joplin & The Grateful Dead (Dead-heads)
>
None of the above.. can tear themselves away from their pet notions long enough to...

'Think Outside The Box' - Get it?

reb
___ ___

Graycrow said...

Reb,

On this side of the Atlantic we have a term for people like yourself, 'Grumpy Old Man'.

I love The Beatles and popular music in general. I also like to smoke the odd reefer, and what's wrong with that?

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - Your shallow answer speaks clearly with exactly "what's wrong"; Your beatles came to the USA with a promotional genius that got them a 'gig' on the Ed Sullivan TV Show, and that propelled them to instantaneous fame & fortune! It also signalled the end of the big-band era, and with it the great lyrics, away from melody and harmony, into the boring repetition of Hey Jude, Lucy-in-the-Sky-with-Diamonds (LSD)
plus countless other inanities, where - Money Rules - over talent, beauty, common sense, good behavior, and logic.
>
Hundreds of thousands of kids took a detour from reality in the 1960's, and never returned, and I was there to observe the family sadness of millions of duped & mentally crippled teenagers here, that believed they knew more than their teachers, coaches, and their parents, combined...and many of them wound up in mental wards on "suicide watch", or stretched out on a cold slab, in the morgue.

Grim Stuff, Rory.

Also, the dope-dealers filled jails & prison cells to an over-flow (another detour) and the insanity continues to this day.

We see it on TV now.. our southern borders where 'Drug Wars' are killing thousands of Mexican Policia and Drug-Gangsters fight & die for control of the streets, and middle-aged adults can only say... "Hey, what's wrong with 'getting a little high' on the week-ends? Lighten up, You Old Grouch!"

'What Empy-headed Fools We Mortals Be'

reb
___ ___

Graycrow said...

Reb,

An ex-junkie told me a few days back that herion (developed by Bayer in Germany in the late 19th century), was introduced as a street drug in America in an effort by the system to eradicate the African American population.

The ploy backfired when whitey got into using the vile product.

Typical,

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - What is "typical" is your carelessness in choosing a poor source (a junkie) for information!
To avoid embarrassment, you might try research, rather than bring in a "racial" or regional component.

It's A Fact: Large Numbers of Poppy Seeds were found in bat-caves in Spain, and carbon-dated 4200 BCE; that's 2,000 yrs before Christ, Rory. In Egypt the use of Opium, the early source of refined heroin, was generally retricted to use by priests, magicians, and warriors, and also used by ancient surgeons to limit death in surgical amputations.

The Cultivation..of the poppy to the "new stone-age", were by the Sumerians, Assyrians, Egyptians, Indian, Greek and Roman Cultures.

The Chinese used Opium for "recreational purposes" as early as the 15th Century.

Recreational use of heroin by "whitey", is a recent tragedy, as are the Mexican & Columbian Drug Wars that threaten to topple legitimate governments, esp. south of the Rio Grande, in the Western Hemisphere.

reb
___ ___

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - Here's Another Hint:

I had a first contact with Mohamed from Egypt (!) when he came to our 'comment section' over 3 yrs ago, and I felt this might develop into an important friendship, and a personal adventure, and Mohamed encouraged me to study the Qur'an, to learn about Islam, so I did...it wasn't easy! I soon learned that if I was interested, I needed to learn the meaning of a few words in that book, so I printed 27 pages > 'Glossary of Islam'... where I found these:

Abd - servant, worshipper, slave.
Adab - good manners.
Bin - from...as in Osama bin Laden
Barak - blessed, (as in, Obama!)
Bidah - Innovation in religion; bad bidah, is a sin.
Fatwa - a legal opinion.
Figh - jurisprudence, in Shari'a; also, a deeper meaning.
>>
So you see, unless you are a religious scholar, you can be the victim of a clever "moderate imam" that wants to deceive you.)
>
Message: Get 'Glossary of Islam'

reb
___ ___

Anonymous said...

Mohamed - Well, I suppose there's no more comment from our Irish friend, so here's a view of my efforts today:

I saw a very interesting program on our History Channel featuring Erich Van Daniken's theories on
"Ancient Alien Visits To Earth" and his evidence on various "extraterrestrials" landing spaceships (alleged locations) on this planet, including photo of Paskal's Sarcophagus Lid in the Mayan City of Palenque, also the Pyramids in Egypt, a landing strip 50 miles long in Peru's Nasca Desert, and hailed as "gods" by some people, to help earthlings. These huge pictures are only fully appreciated when viewed from aircraft! Very contraversial, to say the least.

Are Egyptians interested in this subject...'Chariots of the Gods' by Van Daniken, with his high-altitude photographs...have you seen it on Cairo, TV? - reb
___ ___

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

"IF your apostle says it's a 'prediction', then WHY didn't he just say it's a prediction?"

There is no need to say that a question is a question, or a speech is a speech when the listener can understand the nature of what is siad. And with the same logic, there is no need to say that it's a prediction, because it's understood from the context of the Hadith.
First, Prophet said; "The Hour will not be established until.." which means that this will happen before Judgement day i.e. The Hour, at the end of time. Not now.
Second, it's mentioned in the Hadith that tree and stone will talk, which are both miracles against laws of nature. That's another proof that this will happen at the end of time before the end of the world when laws of nature will be broken.
So, it's clear that it's a prophecy of what "will" happen, not an order to "make it" happen.

>
So, we have now three issues that you present here as evidences of the alleged hatred of Muslims towards Jews:
- I have read, then I re-read these passages in your book
- 1400 yrs of Jihad History against Jews.
- Qurayza Jews.

About the first issue, you didn't mention "these passages". So, I don't know what you're talking about. Actually, you won't find anything with the context you imply.

About the 1400 yrs of Jihad History against Jews. It's the first time I hear that Muslims kept battling against Jews for 1400 years!! I guess they have totally vanished them from the surface of the earth!! I wonder how there are still millions of Jews around the world until now after 1400 years of battling?!!

Mohamed said...

About Bani Quraiza jews, that will need a little clarification for a person unaware of history. So, please be patient..

When Prophet Muhammad immigrated from Mecca to Medina in 622 AD, there were Muslims, Jews, Christians and pagans. He set what is called as "The Medina Constitution". It's full text is available on the web, but I'll choose what concerns our issue here:

"(1) This is a document from Muhammad the prophet (governing the relations) between the believers and Muslims of Quraysh and Yathrib, and those who followed them and joined them and labored with them.

(2) They are one community (umma) to the exclusion of all men.

..

(16) To the Jew who follows us belong help and equality. He shall not be wronged nor shall his enemies be aided.

(17) The peace of the believers is indivisible. No separate peace shall be made when believers are fighting in the way of God. Conditions must be fair and equitable to all.

..

(20)(b) No polytheist shall take the property of person of Quraysh under his protection nor shall he intervene against a believer.

..

(24) The Jews shall contribute to the cost of war so long as they are fighting alongside the believers.

(25) The Jews of the B. ‘Auf are one community with the believers (the Jews have their religion and the Muslims have theirs) ....

...

(37) The Jews must bear their expenses and the Muslims their expenses. Each must help the other against anyone who attacks the people of this document. They must seek mutual advice and consultation, and loyalty is a protection against treachery. A man is not liable for his ally’s misdeeds. The wronged must be helped.

..

(43) Quraysh and their helpers shall not be given protection.

(44) The contracting parties are bound to help one another against any attack on Yathrib.
"

Please notice that "Yathrib" is "Medina".

Mohamed said...

Now, you can see from the terms of this constitution that Jews were given good positions in this community. They are protected by Muslims and Muslims are protected by them.

One of the Jewish tribes that lived in the Medina was Banu Nadir. Everything was going well, until they tried to kill Prophet Muhammad by dropping a heavy rock on him from the top of a house, but Allah saved him. They tried to assassinate the Prophet and the head of the Islamic state. It was a big betrayal and violation of the fair constitution of Medina that had to be handled immediately. Prophet Muhammad sent to them ordering them to leave Medina and gave them 10 days to prepare for that, but they refused. So, the Prophet sieged them until they left Medina at last. Most of them left to Khaybar, about 100 miles away from Medina.

After that they wanted to revenge for that. So, they went to Quraish tribe and encouraged them to fight against the Prophet, and told them too that they still have allies inside Medina (the jews of Bani Quraiza!) and that they will convince them to help them in this war, and Quraish accepted. Then they went to another Arab tribe and encouraged it too, and promised to give them from the dates of Khaybar in case they won, and they accepted too. An army of 10,000 men was formed and headed towards Medina.

When the Prophet Muhammad knew about that, he gathered Muslims to discuss about the available solutions. Soluiman the Persian suggested to dig a trench around Medina, and it was. It wasn't dig in every part around Medina, there were parts full of trees that is hard for an army to pass through, and other parts where there were houses of Muslims, and also the houses of Jews of Bani Quraiza. No army will take the risk of passing through houses that will make him like a mouse in a trap.

When the 10,000 men army arrived and found the trench, they couldn't enter Medina, so they enforced a siege over the Medina.

When days passed with no new achievement. The head of Banu Nadir, Huyay ibn Akhtab, sneaked to meet heads of Bani Quraiza to convince them to betray Muslims and let the army pass through their houses to enter Medina. And they accepted to make this happen.

When news reached the Prophet that Bani Quraiza are going to stab Muslims in the back, he sent Umar ibn Al-Khattab to make sure if this is true or not. And it was assured. So, the Prophet sent Nuaim ibn Massoud, a new Muslim who was a friend to both Quraish and Bani Quraiza jews, and they didn't know that he was a Muslim, to do what he can do to help Muslims in this plight.

Nuaim made a subversion between Jews of Bani Quraiza and Quraish that made the army release the siege and go back to where they came from.

Mohamed said...

Now, Quraish and Arab army has left, but Bani Quraiza are still in Medina with a the most serious crime ever, High Treason.

If we tried to understand the risk of what Bani Quraiza tribe has made, we'll find out the following:
- they totally violated the Constitution of Medina that stated on; "Quraysh and their helpers shall not be given protection, The Jews shall contribute to the cost of war so long as they are fighting alongside the believers, The contracting parties are bound to help one another against any attack on Yathrib"
- they committed the crime of Collaborationism with enemy at the time of war
- if this treason was successful, it would be a full annihilation to the community of Medina
- this treason from Bani Quraiza revealed how they wanted to kill every male and obtain all the money of Muslims after the 10,000 army enter Medina from an unexpected place, however there was a clear constitution that oblige them to protect Muslims, their partners in the same community, not to betray them in war time

For all of that, a just punishment for this treason was the same thing that they were going to do. Saad bin Moaaz, said that their men shall be killed, their sons shall be taken as captives, and their money shall be divided. And about 400-700 men were killed, including Huyay ibn Akhtab, the head of Banu Nadir who leaded the treason. All those who contributed in the betrayal were executed, but those who didn't were released like Amr bin Sady.

No one can ever claim that it's a kind of oppression. What has been done to them is the same of what they were working on hardly to do. A just penalty is of the same kind of the work.

History has much more to tell us about betrayers who were severely punished, spies who were executed, states who violated peace conventions and lost wars, etc.

I've searched for examples for betrayers of their countries, and I found this name; Maximilien Robespierre, who was a lawyer that killed hundred of his opponents, and tried to take control over France instead of the government. He was executed with his supporters, 24\7\1794. That's the punishment of betrayers.

Snake Hunters,
If you have any comment or question, I would be pleased to answer it.

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

You've said; "This type of research takes many hours"

I appreciated that and I answered with an answer that took much effort from me. I hope you appreciate the information narrated in this answer, and read&understand them.

Anonymous said...

Mohamed - Thank you for your valiant efforts on my behalf!
>>
So, Here we are at an impasse, another bridge to no-where. We both seem to agree that "terror" against the innocent is evil, and Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians & Coptics and even Atheist/agnostics are certainly to be counted among those "innocent non-believers".

Now, The One Question Remains:

Does one faith have a devine or holy 'right and obligation' to force any non-believer.. to believe? Or, to pay the tax and become a protected dhimmi, or to become a convert, against his or her will?

For any Sunni/Arab to suggest that they alone..have the devine right to rule this world, will find the Shi'a Persians, like Al-Sadr Militia, and Hezbollah in Lebanon, and a successsion of Grand Ayatollahs in Iran, among those who disbelieve in 'Sunni Supremacy', and struggle to perfect their Nuke Weapons and Missile Technology, to prove it, and then proceed to wipe all non-believers "off the map"!

Conclusion: The final war will find the winners deep beneath the
surface in re-enforced cement caves, with caches of food, water, and limited medical supplies -- peeking out nervously, months after the last missile has exploded -- to a contaminated planet, unworthy to be called "booty"... a shallow victory, I would think.
>
Mohamed - You may write the better conclusion; I am most interested in reading it. - Your friendly correspondent, - reb
___ ___

Mohamed said...

reb,

You're mistaken again.

Defining "innocent" is not by; "Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians ..". Instead, it's defined by the actions of any human. It doesn't depend on what religion or philosophy you believe in, but is defined by what you've done in your life.

You've asked a question. My answer is: No, no one faith has a divine right to force any non-believer.. to believe.

In our Holy Book, the Qur'an, Allah have told us: "There is no compulsion in religion"

About "to pay the tax and become a protected dhimmi". Are you implying the Jizyah?

Well, if you studied about Jizyah, you'll find out that it's one of the most just tax systems ever. Here you're few information about Jizyah system:

- It's not a new invented system from Muslims. All powerful countries took the Jizyah from other countries under their sovereignty. Islam only set just rules for it.

- Not everyone will pay it, but only those who're financially capable.

- Incapables who cannot pay Jizyah will take their living from Bayt al-Mal, Treasury of Muslim state.

- Jizyah is related to the protection of Muslims to non-Muslims. So, if Muslims couldn't protect non-Muslims, or they cooperated with Muslims in protecting the country, there won't be Jizyah.

- As a logic duty towards the state, non-Muslims pay Jizyah, and Muslims pay Zakat (2.5% of the yearly income of the individual).

- Jizyah and Zakat all go to the treasury of the state, that will be returned to all the citizens as services, new institutions, roads, etc.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

So, if you are correct, I am wrong on all points?

* Jihad, according to Fadly, is not a war of conquest to gain land, converts, and the "booty" of women & children, but a lifetime struggle to purify self ?

Well, if that is true, then the Sunni Arabs are far more culturally advanced than the Persian Madhi Armies with imported technologies, and their suicidal shahid "terrorist" radicals... and I have wasted my time reading Bukhari, Vol 4, Book 52 and Qur'an 9.5 and the Figh "deeper meaning" of Islam!

I suppose I'll never really understand Islam, just as you will never understand Jefferson/ Madison 1st Amendment, and the Preamble to our U.S. Constitution.

It's all about the 'rule of law', and liberty & justice for all men, and women too!

Maybe I should post something about...
Dearborne or Detroit, Michigan; those are terrible places in the U.S.A. - (Rory would like that.)

reb
___ ___

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - On Jan 6th, Graycrow made an indirect reference to America's "Fading Dream"...
but failed to expound on it.

Ben Franklin said, "It's a republic...if you can keep it!"

So, friend Rory should be a bit more specific, if that was a slur.

Who will defend and protect our European allies "right to choose" after the next war, if we just "fade away"? And, what decent form of government does he expect to surface after the next revolution?

Socialism, or a benevolent Nanny State? A One-World Theocracy?
>>
'Detroit City, Lost Forever' is posted; it's an example of what can happen when foolish people choose bad government! - reb
___ ___

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

Yes, you're mistaken again. Jihad isn't only the lifetime struggle to purify yourself, of course it's the biggest kind of Jihad as the Prophet told us, but there are another kind of Jihad. It's to fight against oppression, against those who suppress their own peoples, those who steal the freedoms of peoples, and against those who terrorize innocent peoples.
It's a mission to protect innocents, the weak, worshiping places, and interests of peoples.

"39. To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid;-
40. (They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, "our Lord is Allah.. Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will).
41. (They are) those who, if We establish them in the land, establish regular prayer and give regular charity, enjoin the right and forbid wrong: with Allah rests the end (and decision) of (all) affairs. "
Surah 22: 39:41

"74. Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).
75. And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!" "
Surah 4: 74, 75


>
reb,

Maybe you are not ready yet to try to understand Islam by your own or through neutral resources. But I'm ready and open-minded to understand your 1st Amendment and the Preamble to your constitution. I'm a law student and would be pleased to know more about another country's constitution. On the other hand, I may make a post about the 1st Amendment if you have convinced me that it's a valuable thing.

I'm listening to whatever you want to say about it. Please don't direct me to other sources, I've tried to find resources handling the American 1st Amendment and I find no valuable and easy-to-understand one, so please all your words shall be your own.

Your turn..

Graycrow said...

Reb,

Why on earth would a junkie be a poor source of information on Heroin?

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - Pose your questions about "junkies", and Heroin and the ancient Opium Poppy to the goofies on PP, where I saw your recent comments; even those loonie-tunes know that it didn't come from Bayer; The Middle East and the Chinese had Opium Poppies for millenia before there was a USA, or a Bayer Company!

>

Mohamed - Are you familiar with C.A.I.R., and the 'Islamic Circle of North America' or the ambition of these moderates to form a World Wide Caliphate, to Establish Shari'a in the Western Hemisphere...to replace our U.S. Constitution?

I have noticed that you never mention the Sadr Militia, or Persian/Syria/Hezbullah ambitions to dominate to entire middle east with borrowed missile and nuke technologies.

Those are interesting subjects too! - reb
___ ___

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - Reading the 'Bill of Rights' and The Preamble to the U.S Constitution is highly recommended to any law student; also, the very first written law...
The Hammurabi Code, 1800 B.C.

Knowledge Is Power! - reb
___ ___

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - The study of the "evolution of written law" from its early beginnings to the 21st century is extremely valuable for the serious student. Without it, we are left incomplete and misinformed...and that leads to false conclusions!

Our 1st Amendmnet gives citizens a fundamental right to choose any religion, even a skeptical agnostic, or no religion at all!

The alternative...is to have an "Infallible Pope" or a 'Grand Ayatollah'...to force their notions
of Truth...down the throats of the world's populations...with claims of "devine prerogatives" and the outrageous religious claims of an omnipotent, omniscient creator.

These competing beliefs are often the driving force that leads men to a Continuum of Brutal War.

reb
___ ___

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

Is that all what you can say about the 1791's 1st Amendment on US constitution?!!

I expected more when you have mentioned it tens of times on your comments on our blogs!!

Anyway, I guess Islam has surpassed it 14 centuries ago by its immortal verses.

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. " Surah 2: Verse 256

This great rule is assured repeatedly in verses of Qur'an in the verses that tell Prophet Muhammad that ..

-he cannot enforce someone to believe:
"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe! 10:99

-he is no more than a reminder to people, not a warder over their will:
"Remind them, for thou art but a remembrancer, * Thou art not at all a warder over them." 88:21,22

It's also maintained by the clear invitation in Quran for everyone to contemplate in Universe and reach the truth by himself:
"Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day,- there are indeed Signs for men of understanding,-
* Men who celebrate the praises of Allah, standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and contemplate the (wonders of) creation in the heavens and the earth, (With the thought): "Our Lord! not for naught Hast Thou created (all) this! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire. "
3:190,191

It's an invitation for freedom to our minds.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - I cannot understand why you are unhappy with my suggestion that you study the "Evolution of Law" from King Hammurabi's Code to Moses Ten Commandments...to the Roman Codification of Law, to Shari'a, then on to English Common Law...and only then, a careful study of exactly why the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights IS so very different, with its concepts so unique, that people from around the world were anxious to leave their family heritage & culture, risking everything to become American Citizens!

Freedom of Choice, Mohamed; that's the huge difference, that allows these immigrants an opportunity for their sons AND daughters to choose a belief or "faith", a profession or career in a small business, or industry, or science. A right to live in the city or in rural farmland, in mountain or desert, to enjoy travel to other cultures, etc., without fear of scorn and ridicule from their neighbors, and from their Imam.

Does a Saudi Arabian man or woman have this freedom to choose any of the world's great religions? Does a Christian Pastor have a right to build a church; or a Jew to build a Synagogue, or a Hindu or Mormon to build a Temple on Saudi soil? Does a muslim have the privilege of leaving his mosque to search for the Truth in Buddhism? Does a Muslim University have a Course in Comparitive Religions, taught by an Agnostic? - I don't think so.

Mohamed says that there is 'No Compulsion' in Islam - I don't think that is accurate. - reb
___ ___

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

You have been given a good chance to tell me about what you consider the best thing in life, 1st Amendment. And all what you could say are "5 lines"!!!!

You were asked not to redirect me to other resources and that all what you say shall be your own words. However, you said; "Why don't you study the Bill of Rights"!!!
What is that?!!!!!!!

I would doubt then your ambition of giving awareness to others. All what you can do is asking questions and not waiting for answers. You don't have the capability and braveness to stand firm in a discussion, even about your own beliefs and .. 1st Amendment. I guess you're amused of always directing accusations to others. Don't worry, it's a psycho illness that can be healed. It's called; "Inferiority complex"

Please answer the following questions, if the answers were Yes, please consult some doctor..
- Do you always feel that you have to say something that defame others, true or false is that thing?
- Do you always direct true or false accusations to others?

What are your answers?

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - You count 5 lines, and I see 3 paragraphs, plus one line!
>
On Jan 13th you said, "I am a law student and would be pleased to know more about another country's constitution." Since I also am interested in written law, you encouraged me to write about...The Evolution of Law, from ancient times to the 21st Century.

Comparing Laws, much like the
Study of Comparitive Religions, are enlightening subjects that broaden a person's perspective of
history! It certainly was not meant
to accuse, or to insult you.

If you choose to believe that I need psychological help, that's an opinion without a foundation, and unworthy of my response. Regarding your final two questions:

* I see no gain in defamation
* I see no gain in false accusation

reb
___ ___

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - In the interest of fairness and accuracy I like to double-check information; See...

Middle East and Terrorism

Monday, January 17, 2011
The Region: Revolutions, Walkouts and Fatwas by Barry Rubin*

*The above article deals with major developments in Tunisia, Lebanon and Egypt, and mentions a fatwa issued by Dr. Imad Mustafa, of al-Azhar University, the most important Islamic university!

Question: Is this article accurate? (Thank you.) - reb
___ ___

Graycrow said...

Reb,

Everyone knows anout the opium poppy and that opium has been used for thousands of years.

It is also a well known fact that the Bayer Corporation first refined Herion and gave it it's name.

As usual, you are a mine of misinformation.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - Everyone Knows...that certain chemicals do impact normal brain function...and some people foolishly self-induce impaired brain-function for a temporary feeling of euphoria or "high".
Question: Would you board an airplane, bus or train if... the pilots or operators were known druggies?

Mature people would not.

Now, would you please.. first allow Mohamed to answer my serious question, without interruption?

reb
___ ___

Graycrow said...

Reb,

Yes why not?

All armies give soilders and airmen ahphethimines and morphine in times of war.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - Now you're an expert on Meth?

Mohamed - Your turn. - reb
___ ___

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

That's so funny! You're consulting me about the accuracy of something!!!

Huh, and will you care by any way to my opinion?!!!!

I don't think so.

Anyway, what do you want to "double-check" about? All what you provided is an article's title. What exactly you want to make sure of?

Anonymous said...

Mohamed - Yes I care about your opinion, believe it or not!! But, I'm not here to amuse you.

Yes, I care about 'Moderate Muslims' and wish there were more of them, willing to speak up, but I think they must be muted with... Fear! That's why I was interested in your opinion of Dr. Imad Mustafa.

Super-Wealth Changes People... Turns Them Into Monsters.

I Wish... that I could expose ALL the evil billionaires in the USA that are 'Drunk With Power', and feed on the CHAOS they Create...to make More Money, and when they buy the souls of Journalists & Politicians,and Manipulate the Mainstream Media, to Destroy our Laws Governing Conduct, and Justice, and the Liberty to Freely Choose...Right from Wrong!

And They Create Wars!

You are 22 yrs old, and you have much yet to learn; watch my blog in February & March, and maybe you will begin to understand why I sit at this keyboard for hours every day.

(It's not necessary that you comment.)

reb
___ ___

Graycrow said...

Reb,

I know nothing what-so-ever about meth. I never met anyone who has even seen it, let alone taken it.

That is one American social problem that has not infected Ireland yet, thank God.

Rory

Anonymous said...

Rory - I did not address my last remarks to you...I had hoped for a response from Mohamed.

* Whatever your agenda may contain,
it...and 'Irish Socialism' or what you think of drug addicts, or addiction... will never reach the level of world consequence, so PLEASE allow the primary person here, to speak about world-wide Islam; Muslims do speak for over one billion people!

* Your interruptions only serve to
corrupt, and interfere with the normal flow of discussion. - reb
___ ___

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

Yes, you're right. I have so much yet to learn. One of our most famous Imams said; "Ask for science from cradle to death."
But do you think that it's related to how old are you?!!
There are many who are driven by ideas that restrict them from learning new things or from changing what was taught to them over the years. They even strictly refuse to read the holy books of others to know what they believe in from their sources.

Now, about this person; Imad Mustafa. I don't know what's wrong with him? i.e. why you're mentioning him here? I didn't hear about him before? Is he an important guy? Where does he live?
I cannot understand why you're asking for my opinion about him?

Please be more specific.

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

I've searched for this name and I found that the Syrian ambassador in the US is Imad Mustafa. I found also a singer with the same name, Imad Mustafa.
Which one do you mean?

Graycrow said...

Reb,

You asked me a question...

Rory - Now you're an expert on Meth?

Being a polite person, I anwered it.
Even if you had not asked a question I think I have as much right to comment on this blog as anyone else.

As this is Mohamed's blog, surely it is up to him to decide if a comment is inappropriate.

You can be very, very arrogant and patronizing at times.

Rory

Anonymous said...

Rory - Sorry that I offended you, but I have more interest in Islam, than with Irish-Socialist Politics;
it should be obvious (if you ever stop "medicating yourself") why Islam is far more important than Irish political notions.

An Unstable Pakistan has nuclear capability, and IRAN's Ahmadinejad has ambitions to wipe tiny Israel "off the map" to totally dominate The Middle East (mostly Sunni Iraq, Kuwait & Saudi Arabian Oil Reserves) so he can build more
mosques, and improve his Madhi Military Power with purchased or stolen technologies!

China is watching that rascal, with considerable amusement, I would guess. But the Saudi &
Egyptians are NOT AT All Amused.

Arrogant & Patronizing? Or perhaps a "disgusting old man"? No, but an acquaintance thinks I'm Bi-Polar, with chronic A.A.A.D.D. - When I asked for a clarification, she explained it; "Age Activated Attention Deficit Disorder"!!!

Whatever it is, I'm diggin' it to the max; and I'll include a lifetime interest in the many comp eting religious notions that are responsible for killing millions of innocents over the centuries; Also, billionaires that spend vast fortunes in the vain effort to change everything to suit themselves! Money Jihad...Whewee!
>
Mohamed's domain; he does whatever he likes, and he's also better at explaining the Qur'an complexities than you are, and he doesn't need a bong-pipe or a bottle of booze to enhance his judgement on important matters.
>>
Mohamed - If you never heard of Dr. Imad Mustafa, then I must be wrong about him being an important "moderate" muslim.

* I believe that you and I will never have enough knowledge, and age does have an advantage over youth, in real-life experiences, and vivid memories of things that you may have only read about... whether you think so, or not.

I'll be 86 on Feb 11th

Stay curious; you'll live longer, and also enjoy more thoughtful discussions with a good & loyal wife, and your friends & neighbors.

reb
___ ___

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Hell's Bells Ringing, Everywhere...

* Billionaire Politics in the U.S.A.
* Moscow Airport Suicide Bombing
* Riots in Alexandria & Cairo
* 'Day of Rage' Beirut/Hezbullah
* Rocks, Water-Cannon, TearGas,etc
* Moderates Losing, So, Terror Wins
>
Where next? Paris, London, Madrid,
Mumbai-India, New York City?
>
Crazy and senile, this "arrogant" & zenophobic old trouble-maker just sits here at his keyboard, making comments. Everyone knows he's just a nervous old "fascist/racist/warmonger" wondering about the quality of world leaders today;

Wondering...'how many innocents will die tomorrow?'

reb
___ ___

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - Here's a bulletin from the Middle East...
>
Sparked by Riots and Political Turmoil in Tunisia, followed by more trouble in Lebanon by Iran's Hezbollah; and in moderate Egypt,
900 protestors were arrested and held in the Egyptian Capitol of Cairo Today!

Is the 30 yr reign of Prez Hosni Mubarak in jeopardy? What does the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood say about that? - A curious American wants to know. - reb
___ ___

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

Some political analysts say so about president Hosni Mubarak.

About MB leader, the news hasn't told us anything yet. Didn't the media in America tell anything?

I'm curious too to know what the US media is telling you about the incidents in Egypt. Are they telling you that MB are behind it, or what?

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - A complex story. I'm following four totally different breaking news stories!

Try: UPS, International Desk,
Reuters (England), and Agence France-Presse. - reb
___ ___

Graycrow said...

Mohamed,

The protest in Egypt and other lands in the middle east and north africa are getting a lot of coverage on Irish and British television and radio (RTE and the BBC).

The story we are getting is that the protests a spontaneous, being organized to a large extent using Facebook and Twitter and are NOT being caused by any extreamist groups, Islamic or otherwise.

It was reported today that US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton initally supported president Mubarak and condemmed the protesters but has since issued a statement supporting the protests.

I was watching an Eqyptian man being interviewed on the Irish telvision (RTE) news this evening. He said the protest were because there is a lot of poverty in Egypt (40%), that a high percentage of young women who of marriagable age are not marrying (presumable because of the poverty), that land and other national assets are being sold off cheap to members of the president's ruling elite.

On this basis, as a revolutionary socialist I must say that the protests are a good thing I hope that the government is forced to resign.

Are we being informed correctly?

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed (and rory):

* History is the best source of information; without it, our sheep are easily lead into riots, revolutions and wars.

Pretended goodwill, and outrageous promises (by many politicians) and a cruel & brutal dictatorship is likely to follow. Better to have an informed population of "We the People, By The People, For the People" and an elected governance with 'Limited Power', begins with ---- TERM LIMITS FOR ELECTIVE OFFICES --- Not politicians that stay in power for decades, voting themselves exorbitant pensions, and "freebie medicine" and form "good old boy" clubs that retain life-time powers in our legislative bodies.

Wealth & Power Can Be A Deadly Combination.

An educated class -- with informed people that are aware of history and cultural differences, and a profound respect 'the rule of just laws'. That's the right path.

The 'Study of Comparitive Religions' and their relationship to wars...should be a mandatory course for young people*.

*Revolutions are led by people that demand "change", but they never reveal the details, do they? ...and they manipulate youthful crowds to incite riots...with loud voices shouting commands to throw rocks at the police... "Out With The Old, In With The New!" - When successful, they weild Power, and with it comes all of the corruption, and evil intentions...that surely will follow.

Kings, Dictators and Theological Monarchies fill the history books.

Grand formulas are fed to the masses, and they LIE in their Teeth... and it's the innocents who usually suffer the most severely in revolutions & wars.

If You Want Change, Start With Self.

reb
___ ___

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - I hope you're o.k. - Keep
your head down, you don't want to catch a wild shot! - reb
___ ___

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

World-wide News Agencies Report --

Thousands of protestors fill the streets of Cairo, Suez, and Alexandria; Mubarak headquarters set afire...Army moves to restore
order...
>>
Dr. Mohammed Badi, Veterinary Medicine & Pathology, is the New Leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

Dr. Badi Quote: "Only Jihad Can Restore the Muslim Ummah to Its Former Glory." (06/03/2010)

reb
___ ___

Auntyem said...

Mohamed,

Are there demonstrations in Tanta? How close are any of the demonstrations to you? What do your family think about the situation, or can you not say which side you take, if you do take sides.

Mr. Tony and I are praying that you and your family will not be harmed. Please let us know how you are.

Sincerely,

Emilie
Port Orchard, Washington State, USA

Auntyem said...

Mohamed,

You said, "I'm curious too to know what the US media is telling you about the incidents in Egypt. Are they telling you that MB are behind it, or what?"

Today is Wednesday, February 2 here where we are. All the news channels are streaming the news live on TV when possible, and now we see that Mubarak's supporters are taking a hard, violent stand trying to keep the anti-Mubarak demonstators out of the squares, throwing Molotov cocktails, roughing up Western reporters and cameramen and even the Arab reporters from Al Arabiya and Al Jazeera.

Our commentators have opinions of course, the right-wing saying that of course the MB are behind it trying to destabilize the country, but the left wing taking the side of the anti-Mubarak demonstrators so they can elect a legally elected president of their choice.

We are told that Mubarak has ordered his secret police and other police under his control to stop the demonstators however they can. We are told that the Army is just watching, that they don't seem to help the police.

Our President cannot say that MB is behind the demonstrations, and he can not say that Mubarak should go immediately, only that Mubarak should do the people's wishes, and we wish that Mubarak should have gone already.

Obama gets reports that he cannot talk about. He must wait for the right moment, though some people here think he should just order Mubarak to leave, that he should already have left. If the police or Army should start to shoot people, we don't know what other nations will do.

We are all hoping that moderates will take over. We understand that no one should rule a country for 30 years---we don't have that here where our president can serve only eight years at the most because we have free honest elections.

We want to see free and honest elections like we have here, and of course we hope that a democracy will develop in Egypt and not a theocracy like there is in Iran, nor do we want to see a repressive Sharia like in those countries where women have no rights, etc.

We are very interested in what you think and what you plan to do, if you can tell us.

Mr. Tony and I want to know what is happening there in Tanta. We only hear and see what is happening mostly in Cairo.

God be with you,

Emilie
Port Orchard, Washington State, USA

Auntyem said...

I found interesting articles in an English news service website from late January. I left in only excerpts, otherwise this would be too long:

"What to do about Egypt is the big question in US politics today, with the old battles between foreign policy Neo-cons and pragmatists coming to the fore again.

The Associated Press is running a couple of Israel-related stories.

The first says that Israel has given Egypt permission to "move several hundred troops into the Sinai peninsula for the first time since the countries reached peace three decades ago" because of the protests.

The other story says Israeli pundits are ready to blame Barack Obama if Mubarak is toppled. I'm not sure the Egyptian people will agree that Obama deserves the blame/credit...

Who is advising them, he asked, "to fuel the mob raging in the streets of Egypt and to demand the head of the person who five minutes ago was the bold ally of the president ... an almost lone voice of sanity in a Middle East?"

If Mubarak appears to be staying then protests will continue after then, also initiated by a lack of basic foodstuffs such as flour.

In the event of Mubarak's resignation, the Muslim Brotherhood are well organised and would do well in any open electoral process. While the more moderate political wing of the Muslim Brotherhood will contain the more extreme elements in the group, they are close to Hamas and so increased war risks with Israel and increased terrorism risks in Israel (if border control lapses) are very likely.

Israel's concern at the popular unrest in Egypt is not just about the internal affairs of a near neighbour, but the strategic issue of its 30-year peace treaty with the largest Arab country, once its bitter enemy.

The Suez Canal is still open today, and authorities point to the "armed guards" that patrol the area to ward against attacks.

The legitimacy of the Egyptian police and other internal security organs have long been tarnished by a record of human rights abuses, including the systematic use of torture.

In contrast, the Egyptian military, which was called onto the streets on Friday 28 January, has so far shown commendable restraint and has been welcomed by the majority of protesters.

Jordan and Saudi Arabia see the reactions in the West, how everyone is abandoning Mubarak, and this will have very serious implications." A columnist in the Jerusalem Post describes the unrest in Egypt as "worst disaster since Iran's revolution".

Mubarak is attempting to split the movement against him by sowing seeds of doubt among its constituents.

These include Coptic Christians, educated middle and upper middle class Muslims, and non-ideological youth, as well as the Muslim Brotherhood.

. Mainstream Muslim Egyptians and Copts do have some fear of the Muslim Brotherhood as a sectarian and fundamentalist tendency, but their dislike of the Mubarak government for the moment seems to overcome their anxieties about a theocracy.

The result, for now, is deadlock. But the deadlock is not going to be broken on the streets by the army or the police. At some point there will have to be movement on the political front – and that is not going to happen instantly. (It's worth repeating that the removal of Ben Ali in Tunisia took four weeks; the Mubarak regime is a tougher nut to crack and the uprising began less than a week ago.)

China, Saudi Arabia, and Israel have also expressed anxiety.

Emilie
Port Orchard, Washington State, USA

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - If you please, read Rory's comment on Jan 28th, where he said: "...as a revolutionary socialist I must say that the protests are a good thing".

Really Rory?

As the protestors in Cairo, Alexandria & Suez build momentum
there will be more chaos, not less, more blood spilled, and more people will die... followed by a military crackdown to restore order. Watch what happens in the next two weeks. Whew!!!

>>

Our U.S. "Freedoms" Are Only One Generation Away From Extinction...

Saudi Oil Wealth; not good.

Americans should think hard about that; their families are close to losing everything by allowing sweet-talking political hacks to FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGING OUR LAWS to fit the socialistic notions of our current "good ol' boy" politics.
Term Limits Could Change That!

Its ugly name is Progressivism, and...
Redistribution, and Jobs Lost.

In Egypt, there has never been (repeat) never been...a solid framework for democracy, in any muslim nation, and there is little
hope for one to suddenly surface.

When the Mubarak dictatorship ends, another is likely to take its place. Whether it's a royal king, or a military rule, or a theocratic monopoly, brute force and cruel oppression, is always the result. Self-rule is virtually
unknown. Look at Iran & Syria.

The United States had one revolutionary war in the 18th century, when 56 colonists signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776, establishing a short preamble, a constitution, and a bill of rights; and the very 1st Amendment in that bill of rights was the bedrock foundation of our exceptional nation, with 'freedom to choose' any religion (or no religion), freedom of the press, freedom to peacefully assemble, and to seek redress from oppressive laws forced upon us by men with evil intentions, leading to dictatorships like communism, fascism, and the brute nazi-hating of a hapless, tiny minority.
>>

Hi Emilie, nice to see your input here. - reb
___ ___

Graycrow said...

Auntyem,

It is nice to see some balanced, well informed comment from an american on this blog.

Reb,

Mubarak is a corrupt dictator, he blatantly rigged the last elections in Egypt and has beeen systematically syphoning off the wealth of his nation for the benefit of his family and cronies. Mernwhile 40% of Egyptians live below the poverty line.

Yet you support him? More ill-informed hypocracy from you. Shame.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - Spreading misinformation and false accusations here does not add to your credibility, or enhance your Irish-Socialist position in Wexford, or even on your BlogOfBlogs...

or here on Understanding Islam. I have never supported Mubarak, or any dictatorship, and I suspect that you already know that. If you continue to blow that much smoke, your Irish-Catholic friends will think they've elected a new Pope!
>
Cairo -- The Egyptian Army shuts down the internet & cell-phones -- foreign journalists are attacked by rock-throwing mobs--more violence is expected tomorrow, as those "moderate leaders" vaguely promise peaceful solutions, more jobs, and cheaper food prices...etc
>
Rory, are you hitting on the bottle again, or is it back to the bong-pipe?

reb
___ ___

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Behind The Scenery, Major Problems Ahead For The 'Peace-Loving' Middle East.

Three days of Rock-Throwing, and it's getting LATE for Mubarak to announce his overdue departure from Cairo... to London, Paris or Saudi Arabia in the next ten days, or...there's a real possibility of a nasty Civil War in Egypt, then spreading to Yemen and Jordan!

ElBaradei has been living in N.Y. City and Austria for the last ten yrs, and he senses the possibility of grabbing power in Cairo! Watch out..many theorize that he's a bad choice for the average Egyptian.

Iran Is Jubilant, hoping the turmoil continues. If the Suez closes, many nations will suddenly be short of petroleum, giving Iran more time to quietly develop their nuke & missile capability, that has been stymed and set back two years by a computer worm!

Another rumor: Al-Zawahiri & bin Laden may have a "dirty bomb" to sneak across the Mexican border, then into populated areas of the U.S. More innocent mass-deaths would fulfill to death-wish of the hard-liners in "becoming victorious with terror" as shown in Burkhari, Vol 4, Book 52.

The crazies are popping up like weeds everywhere, each with their own pet versions of holy jihad, and they view our commander-in-chief's daily bla-bla on TV as the rattlings of an immature weakling!

reb
___ ___

Graycrow said...

Jeez Reb, that's scary!

What should I do?

Put a bag over my head?

Hide under a table?

Or just run out into the street and wave my arms about?

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Cheeze & Crackers, Rory! Yaa, Run out in the street back in Wexford with your guitar in one hand, and a bull-horn in the other, and start a revolution; wave your arms and start a fist-fight, and maybe the local cop will put yer butt in jail for a few days. - reb
___ ___

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

For those of us that follow the current turmoil in Egypt, and care a figh about world peace, here's an A/P Report from Cairo, Feb 4th:

Egypt Arrests Three Opposition Leaders!

Among those detained are the new leader of the MB, Dr. Essan el-Erian, deputy leader Mahmoud Ezzat, and Abdul Rahman el-Bir.

Does this signal the beginnings of the 'birth of a nation, conceived in liberty'? Well, not exactly; but we can hope that it might be some early contractions! After all,
the U.S. Revolutionary War took several years, led by some of history's most extraordinary leaders, before we had a working constitution, and a bill-of-rights,
plus our precious 1st
Amendment by Madison and Jefferson.

>>

Rory - It's a quick study. In your sober moments, you should read it!

reb
___ ___

Graycrow said...

Reb,

You have an imagination like a Hannah-Barbera cartoon. Your slandering of me is funny. I imagine I am far more sober than you.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - Trading Insults Is Worthless!

IF.. you could learn to mute your frustrations, and pay close attention to some obvious facts, you might come to the logical conclusion that the entire Middle East has been under Authoritarian Rule for a very long time, and many
that have suffered under these different forms of Absolute Rule, are undergoing the very necessary 'Process of Comparison'.

Egypt, like other muslim nations, have a 'new elite', with a highly educated class of citizen, that have computers, cell-phones, and television sets in these middle- class homes, and the things they see are foreign-produced movies & music, and world history!

Comparision with other "democratic"
forms are slowly but surely changing attitudes in the region, and the old-fashioned leaders fear these intrusions as a serious threat to their own claims of "devine entitlements"!

* Qur'an - Authoritarian Construct
* Shari'a - Authoritarian
* Pharaoh Rule - Authoritarian
* Military Rule - Authoritarian
* Persia (Iran) - Authoritiarian
* Popes, Ayatollahs & Kings..all of these things..under rigid elite governance, and often brutal - > Authority! These are monuments to the past, and are abject failures in modern societies.

In Century 21, we are witness to the beginnings of mass discontent among an educated class of citizen that have been exposed to instantaneous communication with other cultures, other systems of governments that have rejected totalitiarian rule. They see the differences every day in music, in foreign-produced movies, in liturature & history, and even in hannah-barbera cartoons too!

Mohamed is a top graphics guy!

Barack Obama should stay out of Egyptian Politics, and Order Hillary Clinton To Come Home, Now!

After the Riots in Cairo, Suez & Alexandria cool down, the U.S. should be ready to ship urgently needed food and medical supplies,
and let the Egyptian People Choose
Their Next Leader.

If Egypt is Successful, other muslim nations will see it, and the world might benefit. - reb
___ ___

Graycrow said...

Reb,

It is true that there are a great many authoritarian regiems in the Middle East.

The sad fact is that the West and Isreal support many of these tyrants for their own selfish interests.

Egypt certianly has a well educated, intelligent population and I sincerly hope they are allowed to set up the fair and democratic system of government that the majority of the people clearly want.

Rory

Mohamed said...

Madam Emilie,

So long since we last corresponded. Nice to hear from you.

Don't worry, I'm OK. Demonstrations are close to the street I live in, but they are civilized protesters. Injuries and martyrs fell only when the men of the regime hired criminals to attack the noble protesters.

Thanks for your prayers. Please send my regards to Mr. Tony. I hope he is completely healed now.

About what I think about the situation..
Of course, I'm like the majority of Egyptians who hate the 30 years old regime. It was full of corrupt, sucking the economy of Egyptian people, unfair distribution of wealth. So, we're happy now that this revolution is happening to kick it out of the government.

We're not alone in that. Demonstrations spread around the world. England, USA, Indonesia, Turkey, Tunisia, Palestine, etc.

On the other hand, I'm really really happy and amazed of what the protesters do inside Tahrir square, Cairo!
It's a tiny image of how Egyptians in their insider core feel towards each other.
They share food and drink. When Muslims pray, Christians stand around them to protect them. When Christians made their prayers today, Sunday, they were protected by Muslims. No harassment was made against any woman, however the huge number and the tight place. Homes and shops around the square send food and drinks for them for free. Members of People's Protection Committees search every individual who enters to the square. They clean the square every day. And today a young man and a young woman performed the procedures of their marriage inside the square :), and all protesters greeted them.
It's like a perfect small society.

Best wishes,
Mohamed

Mohamed said...

Rory,

Yes, the information you've got are true. I guess you've free and neutral Media. Not like two Media types that I hate: Media in dictatorship countries, and the USA Media type that have convinced some American citizens that a 6 years old Palestinian child is a terrorist that shall be killed!!

Facebook and Twitter are the basic motivation of the revolution, but after that all social classes went down to the streets.

That's true that it wasn't motivated by any religious groups. Muslims and Christians shared in the revolution. They even pray in the same place, Tahrir square. In last Friday's preach -(Muslims have a preach in noon's (Dhur) prayer on Friday)- in the square, the talking Imam said: "Ethics of Islam and the Christ appeared in you."

About the US Secretary of State, we understand what they are doing. At first, they supported Mubarak, they didn't know then the strength of the protesters. Little by little, when Mubarak started to appear weaker, they started saying that they support the protesters, and said that Mubarak shall listen to the people, then they said that he shall transform the authority to the vice-president!!!!
It's a disgusting policy that we understand.

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

So, you see that the protesters were motivated when they saw foreign-produced movies & music, and world history!!

And you think too that;
* Qur'an - Authoritarian Construct
* Shari'a - Authoritarian
* Pharaoh Rule - Authoritarian

In other words, a pharaoh is just the same as a man who rules guided by Qur'an?!!

I say to you, you're like a mechanic who tells a patient with pain in his stomach what shall he do!!

You've never read Qur'an, how shall I trust your judgement when you say that Qur'an is an "Authoritarian Construct"?!!

I respect Madam Emilie, because she has read Qur'an years before we first knew each other. I would listen carefully when she tells her review about some verse inside Qur'an.
About you, you've continually refused to read it. It's your freedom and your choice, but when you'll start telling your view about a book that you've never held in your whole life, you'll be either something of two; a liar or an ignorant!

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

So, you see that the protesters were motivated when they saw foreign-produced movies & music, and world history!!

And you think too that;
* Qur'an - Authoritarian Construct
* Shari'a - Authoritarian
* Pharaoh Rule - Authoritarian

In other words, a pharaoh is just the same as a man who rules guided by Qur'an?!!

I say to you, you're like a mechanic who tells a patient with pain in his stomach what shall he do!!

You've never read Qur'an, how shall I trust your judgement when you say that Qur'an is an "Authoritarian Construct"?!!

I respect Madam Emilie, because she has read Qur'an years before we first knew each other. I would listen carefully when she tells her review about some verse inside Qur'an.
About you, you've continually refused to read it. It's your freedom and your choice, but when you'll start telling your view about a book that you've never held in your whole life, you'll be either something of two; a liar or an ignorant!

Graycrow said...

Mohamed,

I am glad to hear from you and that you have not been harmed in any way by the demonstrations.

I am also glad to read that we are getting accurate reports on what is going on.

Apart from Irish and UK based media I have been following events on some international TV news channels.

The Al-Jazeera and Russia Today stations are quite good for getting international news from a non-western perspective.

I hope some good comes out of these events for you and the rest of the Egyptian people.

Rory

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - This is an Open Forum, and I have been allowed to express
what may appear to some as 'controversy', and that's fine.
Often, open discussion leads to improvement and clarification.

If you disagree with any position, that's your right to disagree, but I did not say that Pharaoh Rule is the same.. as Qur'an and Shari'a, only that these three are...

"Authoritative Construct"

If you choose to pass judgement that I am a "Liar", or that I am "Ignorant", I am not offended; you are merely expressing an opinion freely, in your domain.

Over 80 comments on this post, from four different people, without
dirty reviles from nasty-talking simpletons..from the French blog.

I'm enjoying It! - reb
___ ___

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - I am sorry that you were annoyed by my comment on Qur'an being an 'Authority Construct' when most muslims agree that their Allah is the greatest authority of all, and Shari'a is Allah's Written Law! The Pharaoh was, in that context, a human authority, and not considered of being devine.

As to the Muslim Brotherhood, I've read their creed, which states:

"Allah is our Objective, The Prophet is our Leader, The Qur'an is our Law, Jihad is our Way, and Dying in the way of Allah is our Highest Hope."

Is there an error here?

Since the MB is prominent in both Europe and North America, I think it necessary to at least try hard to Understand Islam, and when experts here say that C.A.I.R., Council of American-Islamic Relations, is in fact, an Arm of The M.B., and the leader here says "We are not here to be equal to other religions, we are here to dominate!"

If...the above paragraph is true, shouldn't Americans try to understand it?

reb
___ ___

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed - I KNOW WHY...

Most People Here Believe I Am A Negative & Foolish Old Grouch -

They Just Don't Like 'My System' Of
Separating Fact From Fiction!

First: I Believe That Jefferson Was The Finest American Mind In Our History; He Said:

"Fix reason firmly in her seat, call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion, question with boldness...." etc

From these 17 great words, I have slowly developed a "snake-hunter 3 desk routine". At desk #1, I have an ink pad and Five rubber stamps (a) Fact (b) Theory, (c) Yes, (d) No! (e) The Plan!

On Desk #2, I have 3 Stamps, Religion, Politics & Propaganda.

On The Third Desk (Analysis) I Again Separate These Items Into Stacks of Paper, For A Final Conclusion!
>>
Example: The Muslim Brotherhood In The United States.

At desk #1, the MB gets "Yes" they are here, as C.A.I.R., and (b) they have a "Theory" and "e" they have a "Plan"

Desk #1 Rating: Three Stamps!

Desk #2 - So, The MB gets Yes (they are here) - Theory: (their faith is superior to all other religions) and "e" The Plan...is to infiltrate, with mosque & madrassa, to 30 cities in 19 states. To complete "The Plan" they must eventually dominate all, and change our constitutional law, replacing it... with Sharia!*

All papers will get to the third desk for close scrutiny.

* Any person that reads the above has the right to disagree...If you have a better system, please do submit it to Analysis Desk - reb
___ ___

Graycrow said...

Reb,

You wrote,
Theory: (their faith is superior to all other religions)

Surely devotees of all religions believe this?

Rory

Mohamed said...

Snake Hunters,

You said,
If you have a better system, please do submit it to "Analysis Desk"

Well, I submit a good invention of our recent human history. This invention is called; "Democracy".

I don't know what you think about it as a republican, but it's a good solution for your fears.

Democracy means that any group can practice political and religious beliefs with no limitations.
The so-called CAIR organization -I suppose- has a license from the government of the USA to be a legal organization.
I guess they can practice what they practice freely.

Remember, the 1st Amendment!!! huh

Anonymous said...

Mohamed - I would remind you that in the United States we had gangs of thugs 80 yrs ago, hanging black men because of the color of skin...they all thought exactly alike, so they were..democratic criminals!

Secondly, I am not a republican, nor a democrat; some are fine, others take money from George Soros, a filthy-evil billionaire!

Greed..for Power! It's a human trait.

If you must tag a label on Snake Hunter, an "independent" will do, 'til they carry me off to the bone-yard. And furthermore, I dislike our CIC, Prezident O-bla, bla because he and Hillary BOTH accepted huge democratic campaign donations from Soros; and I'll bet a Jewish Shekel neither of you knew that!
>
Rory - Yep, they all preach, and get hot & bothered, about their "faith" in something - I've talked to these loony-tunes - then they start revolutions, and wars.

Innocents Die! - reb
___ ___

Anonymous said...

The 1st Amendment is a great guide, and you probably didn't bother to read where it speaks about "peacably assemble" to address "grievances".

It's takes a short two minutes to read it slowly...get the figh?..the profound meaning? - reb
___ ___

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rory - Months ago, you asked me why
I was always polite with Mohamed.

A: Well, that's easy. A person only needs to read Mohamed's Profile, where he clearly says...

"I hate oppression of any kind against any person. Killer of an innocent is my first enemy."

These 17 words stand alone... in evaluating the deeper side of a young person's values. Yes, I like him, and it's not essential that he appreciate my values; it's even possible that he may change his mind about me, some day.
>>
Egypt is the most important nation in the entire middle east, because it has 80,000,000 people; The most educated of all nations in that region. The most diversity
of thought, both in philosophy, and in religious minorities. Also the most secular, and scientifically advanced among the educated, upper-class muslims.

IF there is any hope for world peace, then Egypt will eventually
show the way to other nations, not Saudi Arabia, or oppressive Iran.

It shows supreme arrogance when Obama feels it necessary to meddle in their political affairs. Obama is not an experienced foreign affairs or business expert, and the world knows it! And his key advisors are from Chicago, with a gangster, and a union history!

Obama's most frequent White House visitor is Andrew Stern, the SEIU Union Boss...then George Soros!

Am I being too political here? I have no power-base; should I be quiet? Sometimes, I think older people talk too much when they have strong beliefs.

reb
___ ___

Anonymous said...

Testing

Emilie

Mohamed, I have not been able to post. I keep getting an ad to sign up for a Google blog of my own, and my messages get lost.

Auntyem said...

Mohamed,

I keep trying to post using my Google account, but I only get an ad about creating a blog of my own and my post gets lost.

I don't like posting as "Anonymous".

Emilie

Auntyem said...

testing

Emilie

Auntyem said...

Mohamed,

Thank you for letting us know you are safe. We got so worried when we saw on TV that there was violence in Cairo---Molotov cocktails, fires, the killing of an unarmed protester.

We are glad to hear that both Muslims and Christians banded together to prostest an unjust regime that does not allow criticism, demonstrations, that arrests and "disappears" people.
We wish it could be that way all over the Middle East.

Here in the US we have a constitution that protects our rights to assemble, for free speech and press, to choose a religion or not to.

Our first president George Washington was asked to be the king of the new republic, but he refused. He had fought a monarchy that was head of the church.

We hope that Egypt will become like the US with freedom and justice for all. We have our problems, but our Constitution guarantees justice. If a state tries to pass laws that hurts a religion, race, gender, class, etc. the Constitution works to make things right.

We pray Egypt does not fall back into a monarchy or become a theocracy or dictatorship.

God bless you and your family.

Emilie
Port Orchard, Washington State, USA

Anonymous said...

Emily - Kissie, Kissie!

Joe Doakes

moonlitetwine said...

By the way, if a woman stays at home, she is often seen as a non-consumer, which is against the ethics of capitalism.