.jpg)
Unfortunately when many of us try to judge the Palestinian-Israeli conflict we have one strong belief: "Peace Will NEVER Come ONLY Because Hamas DENY It."
In fact there is another different point of view that is rarely discussed. Trying to explain it I'll answer a question. It may take long to answer, but please be patient, it may be the first for most of you to know about the following.
The question: Is it really about Hamas rockets?
In 1987 Hamas was announced as an Islamic Palestinian resistence against the Zionist occupation. Could you read the previous date? It's 1987. Please memorize this date very well..1987.
I'll talk about accidents that happened before this date. Please be patient reading the following.
1938> Bomb in a train in Haifa killing 2 Arab cops, 2 British cops. (Irgun Zionist movement)
1938> Bomb in a coffee shop in Haifa killing an Arab civilian. (Irgun)
1938> An attack against a bus to Jerusalem killing an Arab Palestinian cop man. (Irgun)
1938> 3 Arab civilians killed by bullets in Haifa. (Irgun)
1938> 2 Palestinian civilians killed in Tel Aviv.
1938> 7 Arab Palestinians killed in a bomb explosion in Jaffa.
1938> An Arab civilian killed in a hospital's yard in Haifa.
1938> Many Palestinians killed in a bombing in a crowded market in Jerusalem.
1938> Firing towards a group of Palestinians killing 7 close to Tel Aviv.
1938> Throwing a bomb towards a bus in Jerusalem killing 3 Palestinians.
1938> Explosion of 2 time-bombs in a market in Haifa killing 18 Palestinians and 5 Jews.
1938> Bombing in Jerusalem killing 4 Palestinians.
1938> Market bombing in Jerusalem killing 10 Palestinian civilians.
1938> Market bombing killing 53 Palestinians in Haifa.
1938> Market bombing killing 24 Palestinians in Jaffa.
1939> 33 Palestinian killed (24 in a market bombing in Haifa, 4 in a market bombing in Jerusalem)
1939> Land mine explosion near a cinema in Jerusalem killing 5 Palestinians.
1939> Bomb in Jerusalem killing 5 Palestinians.
1939> Bombing a mail center in Jerusalem killing the British bomb specialist.
1939> 6 Arab Palestinians killed in Jerusalem.
1939> Explosive bag on a donkey's back in Haifa market killing 20 Palestinians.
1939> 13 Palestinians killed in a fire shooting.
1939> An Arab Palestinian killed in Jerusalem market.
1939> Shooting 2 Palestinians in Lefta village.
1939> Market bombing in Haifa killing a Palestinian civilian.
1939> A Palestinian civilian killed in Jaffa train station.
1939> 6 Palestinians killed in attacks close to Tel Aviv.
1946> Bombing of the King David Hotel killing 91 persons (41 Palestinian, 28 British, 17 Jew, 5 other) {Explosives were put inside milk cans, executives of the attack wore Arab clothes}
1947> Balad al-Shaykh massacre when 70 Arabs (including women & children) were killed. {Most of the bodies were found inside the homes of the village}
1948> Bombing of Arab National Committee HQ killing 14 Palestinians.
1948> Semiramis Hotel bombing killing 24 people.
1948> Haifa train bombing killing 40 Arabs. (Lehi)
1948> Ein al-Zeitun massacre when about 70 Palestinians were killed. (Palmach)
1948> Abu Shusha massacre when 60 Palestinians were killed.
1948> The massacre of Deir Yassin village when 360 Palestinian (children, women, elderly, young men) were killed through random firing.
1953> Qibya massacre when 69 Palestinian were killed, many of them by exploding their homes when they were inside, 45 home were destroyed, a mosque and a school. {The massacre was led by Ariel Sharon, former Israeli prime minister}
1956> Kafr Qasim massacre when 48 Palestinian civilian were killed, including women and 23 child.
1956> Khan Yunis refugee camp massacre when 520 Palestinian were killed.
What was the date? It was 1987. Hamas was established in 1987!!
We should think thousands of times, use our minds and think logically before believing the claims of Israeli entity when an Israeli soldier uses his rifle, or an Israeli pilot by his helicopter or F16 killing a child, when a school is targeted by air-to-ground missiles, when a child is killed by a bullet in the head, or when a baby is killed in his mother's womb, or when the villagers of small village are killed by automatic guns. We must think if this crime or that massacre is REALLY BECAUSE a rocket was launched!!
If we asked ourselves why Palestinians fight against Israelis and these massacres and bombings were not the answer, then what is the answer?!!
Targeting schools is not a new thing in the Israeli history. In 8th April, 1970, 9:20 AM, Israeli Phantoms struck Bahr el-Baqar Egyptian school when 130 children were inside. Five bombs and 2 air-to-ground missiles were sent at the school causing 46 child killed and 50 wounded (many of them maimed for the rest of their lives). The school was completely destroyed. The usual justification; Israelis thought it was a military base!!!
Should we believe such claims?!!
If we will keep calling Palestinian side as the "obstacle stone" in the way of peace and considering Israelis as the "peace doves", ignoring all this long history, then I can assure that peace and stability in this area will be far far away.. in fact they'll never be achieved.
But if we have a balanced view of the situation, taking in consideration that there is a side who started the conflict by unilaterally declaring their Jewish state completely ignoring the Millions of non-Jews who lived for hundreds of years on the same land, then deciding to use Jews as human shields by bringing them from every spot of the world however there weren't a real ceasefire between Palestinians and Israelis, they threw them in the middle of the battle ground, that's why immigration out of Israel is becoming more than immigration to Israel in the last few years.
The peoples in the west must change their view of the conflict on this small part of the land. There are two sides, the first who lived for hundreds of years on this land, the second who came to this land from other states and nationalities and unilaterally declared their entity using every illegal mean to achieve that. A very balanced view built on a good study of history is necessarily needed.
62 comments:
Isreal has to make a real and lasting peace soon, america can not support her forever.
I see, Mohamed. Since Israel allegedly did bad things in 1956 and before that justifies your terrorism today.
Get the chip off your shoulder.
Your problem is that you wallow in victimhood. Nothing that goes wrong is your fault, but that of someone else.
If Palestinians want to live in peace they need to refocus their efforts from building weapons and tunnels to building an economic infrastructure. Build liberty, not bombs.
Hamas, 1987 O.K., I'll Bookmark it.
>
Is That Your 'Israeli Terror List'?
Well, there's a much longer list,
beginning in 1972, in Munich. I have thousands of dates, listing the murders of innocent citizens in dozens of countries, in foreign embassies, air high-jackings, and bombs aboard airplanes, piracies at sea, knifings & beheadings, bombs set off at weddings & funerals, suicide bombs in buses & train stations, cafes & market places, whereever there is an innocent crowd to terrorize.
The curious part about most of these muslim atrocities, the victims are often random, non-specific targets! The killers most often do not have even the names of the intended victims; only the larger numbers seem important. The more victims, the higher the honor for the Shahid! Be it Christian, Buddhist, Bahia, Zoroastrians, Hindu or Jew, they are all viewed as just pathetic Infidels anyway!
Doesn't the Qur'an order followers to subdue the non-believers, "ambush them...and "strike off their heads"?
Also, there's 9/11.
This evidence clearly suggests a warped and deep-seated, "Ancient Kill-Culture.
reb
_________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com
Rory,
I agree.
***********
Tom,
What do you mean by "allegedly"? These train and market bombings, and villages' massacres really happened. Only Zionists were responsible for it. They terrorized safe people in their homes.
Also, what do you mean by "your terrorism"?
I didn't "terrorized" any body!!!
If you think that I'm a terrorist only because I talk about the Zionist brutal crimes, then where is the American claims about "Freedom of speech"!!
You said; "Your problem is that you wallow in victimhood."
That's Israelis who are doing that. Holocaust, holocaust, holocaust!!
When you believe that; "Palestinians got what they deserved at the hands of the Israeli" So do you think that an Israeli nuclear bomb dropped on the stripe of Gaza would solve the problem?!!!
You did it before, it exists in your culture.
A last thing, you didn't provide your comments about "Israeli allegedly bad things". Are you brave enough to do that, or you're afraid to be tailed by the lobby, or to be accused of "Anti-semitism"?!!
***********
Mr. reb,
We can discuss all these things later. But I'm taking here about a different thing. The place is Palestine, the date is; since 1938 until ... and the accused are Zionists & Israelis.
Please focus on this at the moment.
The importance of discussing these massacres is that they justifies why Palestinians decided to fight against the occupiers, why Israelis are not accepted in the area.
Mr. reb, those guys killed and raped grandfathers, grandmothers fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, friends and neighbors of Palestinians of today. Can you understand how you would make peace with those who killed a father or a friend? No way.
Mohamed
Please vote in the poll in the sidebar!!
Mohamed, It seems that you never tire of Accusing, and Blaming the U.S. for the First and ONLY Nuke Bombs ignited in Wartime. Give it up! Read The HISTORY.
Several Nations were actively working on nuclear development in the 1940's, and Nazi Germany was far ahead in the research at that time; secondly, the U.S. was a Surprised, Peaceful, Unprepared VICTIM of the Sneak Attack on our Naval Fleet at Anchor, in Pearl Harbor, on Dec 7th, 1941. (I was 16
years old. At 18 yrs, I was in the high Rocky Mountains training for
deadly combat missions; I was there!
American Industrial Genius allowed us to beat the Nazi to that Nuke Capability; the world should be grateful, not antagonistic!!!
>
You don't have a clue; you don't know what you're talking about! reb
________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com
Reb:
I am sure the world was grateful in 1945, but it's 2009 now and the U.S has worn out it's goodwill, not in the least by it's breaking of the Geneva Convention and using torture, this puts them into the same category as the Gestapo.
Rory
Mr. reb,
We can spend hours discussing this later. But the topic now is; Zionist and Israeli terrorism, markets and buses bombings against unarmed Palestinians.
Are we ready to discuss it?
Mohamed & Graycrow, hear me well...
IF Adolph Hitler's (1940) Great Scientific Teams, with their Supurb Engineers and Incredible War Industries...After Conquering Most of Industrial Europe With His Panzer Divisions, Had Beaten The U.S.A. to that Nuclear Bomb...
We would not all be peacefully chatting on our hi-tech computers (Verboten under Nazi Law) about the U.S. 'Lack of the American Goodwill', or 9/11, nor about suicide bombs & grim beheadings, or the harmless Water-boarding "torture" of that Fat, Hairy, Pig-Emir, that gave up his Vital Info, now sitting in Guantanimo Cuba Prison, dreaming of his own martyrdom. Nor would we be endlessly talking about Zionist so-called "Illegal Occupation" of a land Palestinians have NEVER ruled or owned, against the Ottoman Turks, Romans (so-called Christians) and more recently against the Jewish 3,000 yr Land-Claim, dating back to the biblical Hezekiah; that, my friends, is the real Palestine.
>
Mohamed wishes to push these basic truths under the rug; he wants to discuss it "later".
>
Fact: We would All be speaking Nazi-Germanic (not conversing politely in English); we'd all be eating Saurkraut & Wienersnitzel, and barking Heil Hitler (!) and quaking in our boots to the Modern Nazi Storm-Troopers. Today we are all witness to these Know-nothing Traitors of Liberty, right here at home, sweetly listening to C.A.I.R's Saudi Propaganda Minister's Crappola in the Saudi Mosques...in Dearborne & Detroit, Michigan! These dull-whitted duped clowns also know little of WWII history.
Nazism would have the Saudi, Iraqi,
Iranian, Kurd, & Kuwaiti Vast Oil Reserves...monitored by European & Vichy soldiers; think about that.
With today's Europian Unwillingness to show some back-bone, they'll Accept a Creeping Muslim Shariah, and the Slow & Relentless Infiltration, with a bit of "Civil Disobedience"...and concurrent increasing violence.
We, in the USA will never give up our First Amendment's Freedom of Choice. That's Never!
>
Ahmadinejad's squeeky voice speaks with a Forked Tongue; his Obedient Hezbullah & Hamas Puppets Do Not Impress Well-Informed Americans, nor the Egyptian & Saudi Intellectuals, believe that; they know better!
Iran's 12th Imam, the Persian 941 A.D. 'Madhi Prophet' is a giant Fraud, a Monumental Hoax, and Mohamed knows that too...just ask him about the Madhi. Go ahead, do it, ask him right now.
>
Iran Must Never Be Allowed To Achieve Nuclear Hegemony Over The Middle East...and Mohamed Fadly Knows That Too, so he deftly changes the subject. reb
_______________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com
Mr Reb, you wrote,
With today's Europian Unwillingness to show some back-bone, they'll Accept a Creeping Muslim Shariah, and the Slow & Relentless Infiltration, with a bit of "Civil Disobedience"...and concurrent increasing violence.
As a European I have some questions?
Should we be violent towards our muslim neighbours?
Or sould we use an Isreali style aparthied approach?
Personally I have no problem with muslims living in my country and building mosques. The European Union has tried and trusted legal systems in place (code napoleon or common law) and has no need to adapt any religious legal system.
Rory
Rory! You are woefully, and pathetically misinformed. It's obvious that your Irish neighborhoods do not yet have the large muslim enclaves that demand that your own Irish police officers stay out of "their" areas...Or Else (!)...having their own "Piety Police" (Mutahwah); or that Irish lassies and even older adults conform to muslim notions, wearing only strictly 'modest' clothing and head-scarfs...and those ladies ever fearful of being gang-raped by young muslim thug gangs on the prowl, looking for likely "infidel" victims that innocently stray into "their" neighborhoods, even in daylight hours!
Don't you have any females in your family, or any attractive lady friends that you respect?
You're a Roman Catholic?
France & England and other Europeans increasingly do have those enclaves and mosques, and the problems that go with it; and these incidents are increasing with "liberal" Muslim Immigration Laws. You will be seeing more of these sir, confronting serious problems with thugs DEMANDING a permanent change in your local laws.
Muslim men often treat their own fine women no better than the family goat, a degree of abject inferiority unheard of in most non-muslim cultures. Polygamy is acceptable; public whippings & beatings, and sexual mutilations, and "honor killings" of young female family-members by parents or close relatives. Believe it or not, these horrors are still commonplace in many of those societies, with little or no punishment! Suicidal murder is admired and rewarded. The family receives blood-money, and the Shahid gets 72 virgins, in a far away 'Muslim Paradise'. That's what they teach in many mosques, on Holy Friday!
Tap your Search Engine for "Honor Killings", if you doubt my motives, then read the two Nonie Darwish Posts in Snake Hunters blog, "Now They Call Me Infidel", and "Roots of the Gaza Conflict', then get the powerful book, "America Alone" by Mark Steyn. Solid information is available, if you are seriously searching for the truth.
Even where U.S. Law protects women
from these beastly Honor Killings, we are beginning to see cases here. Recently, a father in Texas shot his two teenage daughters in the back seat of his taxi, then he disappeared. In another recent incident in New York State, where a Muslim TV Executive cut off his wife's head because she filed for a divorce! He's in jail, the murder trial is pending.
>
You owe it to yourself at 42 years of age, to investigate these facts before making any more ridiculous and embarrassing public statements. reb
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com
Reb:
I was born in London, England, my mother is English, I lived in London for 3 years as an adult, in South London (Brixton, Stretham and Croydon) which have large muslim populations (maily from Pakistan). For over a year I had a muslim family living next door. I had a muslim landlord for a while.
Neither myself or my white neighbours ever had any trouble with these people. The worst troblemakers were the English National Front, everyone hated them, English, Irish, Blacks, Asians. They were cowardly, racist hatemongers, you probably have a lot in common with them.
Gang Rapes !!!??? you write just like a nazi, just substitute Jew for Muslim.
Rory
Mohamed,
"You said; "Your problem is that you wallow in victimhood."
That's Israelis who are doing that. Holocaust, holocaust, holocaust!!"
It is strange you say these words because there is a Russian girl on the blog I attend for years (it is not MY blog) who is very vocal and says the same thing. She is not the blog owner, but he made her administrator and publishing person. She's very funny in a way because she doesn't compromise about anything.
She not long ago published an article with a "Israel = Nazi" picture. There are 479 comments on it, and I think I mostly agree with her that Israel is a fascist nazi country.
I recognize the name of Snake Hunter ******* and I see that in one comment in another article by you, he talks about "come and discuss things on MY blog where real freedom of speech American Style happens".
LOLLL, ****: his blog, first it is moderated, you can't say what you want until MISTER SNAKE HUNTER approves it, how is that for freedom of speech American Sytle, and next, anything you say he doesn't like, your comment never appears.
Graycrow, you must be the Irish man I met on *** Snake Hunters blog?
Mohamed,
I have 2 things to ask you, if you don't mind:
1. Can you make your blog NOT play music automatically? It is very annoying when you are listening to a music CD to have a big cacophony everytime you look at a blog, and if you are looking at 2 or 3 blogs, you can imagine what it sounds like, LOLLL.
2. Why do you bother arguing with *** Snake Hunter? Do you not see that it is a complete waste of time?
I am glad that there is a move to help the Palestinians in all possible ways. Sometimes I might even agree with Stiletto (this is the Russian girl) that it would be a good thing if EU could give Palestinians airforce and tanks to combat back the fascist imperialist Israel holocaust of Palestine, so that they wouldn't be called terrorist by throwing rockets on Israel - it would please *** Snake Hunter to see they could run down Israel country with phophorous bombs and mass murder 1330 Israeli civilians, I am sure.
Greetings from Paris,
Valérie
Mohamed,
I have a third question, please.
I have lost contact with a very nice muslim man, he's American, and I would like very much to renew contact with him.
He used to be every day on the blog I attend, but one day he got tired of the American christian **** constantly rubbishing his religion and he left.
I go around blogs all the time and I always ask, just in case someone sees him somewhere. His nickname is Romeo, and he has a very happy spirit, makes fun of himself, and is very friendly.
I know that this will make *** Snake Hunter giggle because he made a special comment about it on this blog, when he did some research on Google or wherever and was so proud to announce that "Valérie has a MUSLIM BOYFRIEND!!!!".
****, Snake Hunter. At least here, you can't stop my comment in your Free Speech American Style, can you?
Anyway, Mohamed, if you have come in his way in some blog, please let me know.
Hi Valerie,yes we met on SNAKEHUNTERS,
it's a small blogosphere. Don't be too hard on Mr.Snake, or Reb as he calls himself, he's an old man and after all, he's the product of his enviornment.
He also is willing to engage in dialogue with people he disagrees with. His comment moderation on his own site is annoying though.
I must re-visit pourquos-pas again soon!
Mohamed will explain to visitors that "reviling" and insulting public comments (and especially filthy language) does nothing to aid an intelligent, often heated, conversation.
An honest exchange of views, i.e. with solid historical information on an "Informative Weblog" (with accurate dates supplied when available) are always greatly appreciated.
>
A difference of opinion is to be expected as quite normal, as we all have an infinite variety of 'Life Experience'.
>
The "potty-mouth" and insulting language adds nothing of value, and
deletion becomes a rare necessity.
>
The 'Graycrow' stays within our set limits on our Snake Hunters blog, and is therefore always welcomed; I have nothing further to add here, Rory...Understand me?
Enough. Finito, Basta. I wish to converse now with Mohamed.
>>
P.S. Please! If someone can find this poor frustrated lady's Romeo, perhaps it might calm her vicious behavior, and also improve her communication skills. Is he hiding?
(This old man would run like the wind 'til I found a safe & secure underground cellar.)...Hah!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"Hell Hath No Fury...Like A Woman Once Scorned!" (Yes, we've noticed). reb
_________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com
O.K Reb, this thread is going nowhere anyway. Rory
Graycrow,
"Hi Valerie"
Hello, I thought it was you, and like you say, it is a small world, LOL.
"Don't be too hard on Mr.Snake"
You know, it's funny because on PP where there is true freedom of speech (yes, Mr SNAKE, not like on your CENSORED blog), I am considered the polite demure girl in comparison with the kind of language other people use.
I am not offended by crude language even if I never use any myself. This is the first time I use a 4 letter word, actually only 3 letter, "pig", because that is the reality, ****. Real ugliness is not from crude language but from the contents and meaning of the message. And that is what Mr SNAKE is full of: ***, ***.
"His comment moderation on his own site is annoying though."
That is because he cannot stand real freedom of speech and censors everything. ****.
"I must re-visit pourquos-pas again soon!"
I am sure that people there would welcome you as before. I am not sure why you were upset about Moonlite. She is on PP every day and is now a close friend of Whynot, they Skype every day.
Mr SNAKE,
"Is he hiding?"
Since he lives in USA like you, I'm sure he'd be hiding from anti-muslim racist ***.
Your Snake blog is nothing but one anti-arab anti-muslim xenophobic rant.
****.
Hi Valerie,
I agree with the main points in your comment, but to clarify a few things:
1. I am Irish and live in Ireland.
2. Moonlite is a good friend, she contributes to my blog,(graycrowblogofblogs.blogspot.com), I was upset about her being called a moron in a comment.
Have a nice day!
o sorry valerie, i understand now, it's your muslim friend who is in the U.S.A
To all visitors of the blog,
First; This blog is NOT made to exchange reviles or to be "word battle" ground. It is made to discuss decently and in a civilized way about Islam, Muslims and Palestine.
Second; the holy Qur'anic verse; "Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah .." is a very important rule in this blog. I won't allow any personal reviles or personal insults in the comment section.
So, all personal reviles will be deleted.
Valerie,
I may agree with some of your perspectives, but that's not how others would understand you. Reviling others will simply make the other side completely disagree and don't listen to your words. So, personal reviles to any person on this blog aren't allowed. Clear?
Another thing; Mr. reb is a 84 years man. How old are you? 30, 40?!!!
In our Islamic culture it's a very bad thing to insult or mock those who're older than us. So, please even if you aren't a Muslim, respect him as an old man, even if he don't agree with all of your points of view. We're all human on this earth, respecting each other is the one thing that keeps our earth beautiful.
About your questions;
First it's not a music. it's a recitation of the Qur'an. I believe it's the best thing you can ever hear, even if you can't understand Arabic. So, I liked to share my visitors on the blog listening to it.
Any way, if you don't like it, you can scroll down and pause it from the sidebar.
I argue with Mr. reb because he has a completely corrupted image about Islamic teachings and Muslims. I'm amazed because he imagines a Muslim community as a community of criminals, killers, terrorists, rapists, police men(piety one), torturing men, humiliated women, etc. That's my duty to do my best to make him understand my Islamic teachings. That's the same if someone said; "Paris is an ugly city!!" You argue with him, sending him evidences about how Paris is a wonderful capital. That's why I "waste my time".
In fact, I don't know this Muslim guy "Romeo" with the friendly spirit. But there is a Muslim youth with a very funny and friendly spirit. His website is; http://www.ummahfilms.com/ I'm sure you'll like him.
Keep in touch (without reviles) ;)
Mohamed
Mr. reb,
Unfortunately, the same talking "off the subject".
I'll re-explain why we should read the history of Zionist terrorism against unarmed Palestinians before the establishing of the Israeli entity on this land.
As a human, it's our nature to hate those who cause pain to those who we love; our family, our friends and our neighbors. That's just how we are.
I'm telling you then that those who claim being innocents now who suffer from the "terrorists" in Palestine, are the same guys who contributed or supported killing civilians and children more than 60 years ago. I'm telling you that what happened more than 60 years cannot be separated from the reaction now, that it's deeply connected to the continues fighting on this land.
This must be discussed. Is it true? Is it false? If true, how it shall affect our look to Israel, and to Palestinian resistance? If true, should Americans keep funding, paying their taxes, supporting, using Veto, sending weapons for the sake of Israel? ... and many other things that will be settled if we discussed these massacres that happened years ago.
So, are you ready Mr. reb to start the discussion?
You asked me many times before to participate in your discussions, and I accepted all your invitations. I'm inviting you this time to participate in this discussion. Will you accept my invitation?
Mohamed
Graycrow,
"i understand now, it's your muslim friend who is in the U.S.A"
Yes, he lives in Texas. I don't have any personal contact details and this is why I ask around blogs that I visit just in case someone has hear of him. He is very nice, very gentle, jokes all the time. He was on PP for years and everyone liked him.
I am very hurt that Snakes, all he could say on his blog is make fun of me saying a catholic girl has a muslim boyfriend. First he is not my boyfriend, maybe he could be one day, because it was obvious to everyone on PP that he had a fancy for me, and me one for him, and everyone thought it was cute and nobody put us down.
But Snakes put me down on his blog as if I am a consort to a terrorist.
And anyway, I don't see anything wrong with people of different religions falling in love with each other, or even people of no religion at all.
About Moonlite,
"I was upset about her being called a moron in a comment."
I remember this, but if you remember also, it was just one person who said that, and everybody else was angry about it, especially Whynot, the owner of the PP blog. This is the price you pay for a true free speech blog. People there have been called much worse than "moron". Stiletto (the Russian girl) has been called "Ukrainian whore" and told "how long before you die with all possible venerial diseases?".
And if you read this Mohamed, you will understand what I say about name calling. This sentence that I quote does not use any crude language, but in my thinking is the ugliest thing to say to someone in the world.
If you think differently and attach more importance to the choice of language, then it's your choice, but it does not impress me at all.
And about your Koran verse in your blog:
I don't care if it is not music, it is sound, and when I play a music CD and an expected sound comes from a blog, it makes a cacophony and is very disturbing. What if I open 3 catholic blogs and 3 muslims blogs and they all start talking at the same time? It is not a matter of that I can stop it if I want it, it is a matter that it starts automatically. It is like advertising shoved down your throat. It is of bad taste.
"So, all personal reviles will be deleted."
You do whatever you like. I see that you have inherited of Snakes view of censoring. Well, censor me. I am used to a free speech blog, and will therefore leave your censored one alone.
Have a lovely time with your fascist friend Snake.
Bye bye.
Mohamed,
PS: "Mr. reb is a 84 years man. How old are you? 30, 40?!!!
In our Islamic culture it's a very bad thing to insult or mock those who're older than us."
That is very nice for you. In MY culture, nobody can talk down other people, whether they are 30 or 84. And 84 year old male fascists can expect 30 year old catholic women to tell them they are wrong.
In MY culture, it is about equality of rights of speech and action. If it is not in yours, then it is a pity, because Romeo is Muslim also, and clearly, in his view, the same thing applied as in mine. And also all the atheist friends I have think the same too.
Once again Mohamed you fail to answer the question. I suggest you stay out of the courtroom dear lad.
Would the invasion of Gaza have occurred oif Hamas had not fired missiles into Israel?
Yes___ No___
Meanwhile, I note there are a lot of problems in Egypt, your own nation.
You should devote your energy to solving those instead of being a Palestinian enabler.
Regards.
The Loop Garoo Kid
Mrs Valerie,
I didn't censor all of your comments. I just deleted the bad words. This didn't affect your freedom of speech. Freedom in my perspective is not to "revile without restrictions", but instead is to "discuss and express yourself without restrictions". I hope you understand.
Another thing, I agree with many of your opinions, we're together against Israeli occupation, terrorism and oppression. So I hope that you keep sharing us your comments in this blog, but just respect my simple rules. It's very easy; "Just Stop Using Bad Words"!!
Mohamed
Mohamed, first of all things, I wish to apologize; it was a bad mistake for me to Grant a Linkage To Your Fine Post; now "the cat is out of the bag", and more reviles will follow. I'm very sorry, I've enjoyed the friendly exchange. Now Your "Understanding Islam" has been corrupted with sleeze, and this 'lady'...at any time she chooses, can & will send others... to agree with you, to posture sympathy to your views; they are tricky, so be cautious. Negative people destroy things, they build nothing of value, Mohamed.
For 2.5 years the S/H blog was an Open Forum; any political party could come, say anything. Then I was forced to "moderate" S/H, because First Valerie came, then her friends began to show up!!! If I opened the gates now, they would happily FILL the Comment Section with Rudeness and Filth that I'll not show here. (If you have a Post Office Box, I can send copies of this filth & pig-slop that I have on file, for your eyes only...if you have a strong stomach. I never will publish this ugly stuff.)
>>
Finally, I must tell you That I AM
Very Aware That Most Muslims, All Around The World, Are Not Suicidal Killers; Most Are Normal People, Moderate, With Good Intentions, w/ Good Education & Family Structure & Positive Values For Their Children.
No single person knows the true percentages of muslims that have been radicalized, propagandized, deceived and filled with blind hatred to the point of cutting off heads, or blowing themselves to bits, or stoning women. If it is only ten percent of a billion people, then the world must deal with ALL of those killers!
Now do you understand me a little better, Mohamed? I hope so.
>>
Until you decide to "moderate" and filter this Post, I cannot return here; it is my poor judgement that has done this to your post.
Again, I am very sorry. Unintended negative things just happen in life.
Your friend, reb
_________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com
Reb:
I was sorry to read your last comment as I thought there was an interesting discussion going on here.
I feel that comment moderation is unnessesary as if a comment is really offensive it can always be deleted.
Most of the porquois pas bloggers are obvious nutcases and I simply ignore their comments.
I hope you return to this site as I feel that dialogue beteen different (and opposing) cultures can only be good.
Until you decide to "moderate" and filter this Post, I cannot return here.
How should I understand that?!!
>>
Mr. reb, you don't have to apologize at all. It's not your fault. That's true that I agree with most of Valerie's opinions, but I just don't like her way to express them. So, it's only her fault. Don't blame yourself.
So, I advice you to continue discussing on my blog. Don't be upset, any other comments that contain personal insults against any body and by anybody will be deleted.
To continue the discussion (in fact to start it) I hope that you log directly to the post main context.
As a human, it's our nature to hate those who cause pain to those who we love; our family, our friends and our neighbors. That's just how we are.
I'm telling you then that those who claim being innocents now who suffer from the "terrorists" in Palestine, are the same guys who contributed or supported killing civilians and children more than 60 years ago. I'm telling you that what happened more than 60 years cannot be separated from the reaction now, that it's deeply connected to the continues fighting on this land.
This must be discussed. Is it true? Is it false? If true, how it shall affect our look to Israel, and to Palestinian resistance? If true, should Americans keep funding, paying their taxes, supporting, using Veto, sending weapons for the sake of Israel? ... and many other things that will be settled if we discussed these massacres that happened years ago.
Mr. reb, please give me your comment about the Zionist terrorism and how it may affected the relation between Arabs and Israelis.
Yes Reb:
I too would like to hear your opinion on Zionist terrorism.
And don't forget that you country stepped in to defend Egypt when she was unilaterally attacked by England, France and Israel. The U.S was an honest broker then?
What has changed? The U.S.A supports some of the least democratic states in THE WORLD in the middle east, the Emerites, Saudi Arabia, Quatar and so on.
Democracy is nothing to do with it. Securing oil has a lot to do with it.
Isreal is nothing but a big American Police Station in the middle of a troublesome area.
MOHAMED! This Comment Section Now
has recorded 32 Comments. All intelligent discussion has suddenly been Radically Changed into a Parisian 'Chat-room' with the sudden appearance of spicy-tongued VALERIE. It's nothing new.
Tap Val's blue NAME, for a sample of what's ahead for your blogsite!
She will continue to INSIST that HER notions, and Her fond longing for Romeo, and Her most superior favorite blog, plus Her many great & wonderful friends in *** Paris...are more sophisticated and world knowledgeable on any subject, including name-calling ***, and strutting with brave self-promotion... and by the way Mohamed, your "music" really irritates her!
(She knows that she can Mute the
Sound, but she wants you to know it
Irritates Her, so STOP IT, please).
Don't you see it?
****
She Now Dominates Any Conversation,
On Any Subject-Matter You Choose...
On Your Blog!
She Can Do It Without Using Too Many "Reviles", & Turn on the Sugar too. Also, She Will Stop Using All Of Those "Bad Words" If You Get Really Get Tough Enough (she really hates deletion; it's like taking a slap in the face).
She Now Dominates MOST of your 32 Comments Displayed Here. Please do return to the beginning, read all
32 Comments. Ask yourself, 'What has happened Here?' How many times has SHE mentioned Your Favorite Subject...Palestine?
NO! Now it's All-Valerie, sweet demure Valerie's turn, to call me names.
I Know Her; and I Know about some of her "friends" also. They have attempted "bad word comments" on S/H, for Five Long Months! I have them, with the dates. I smile, and refuse to publish them, but they will never stop trying; they are tireless **! Then they tell other blog-masters that I censor and control, saying..."It's Free Speech, American Style." Hah!
>>
When Mohamed & 'Graycrow' decide to resume more civil & rewarding, and uninterrupted conversation, you know where to find me.
I'm gone! reb
Mr. reb,
Just ignore her "bad words" and log into the post context. Just "smile" the same as you smile when you read their reviles on your blog that are stored in a file.
I believe they use worser words in your blog. So, the reviles on this blog are just a normal thing that you surely met before. They are no way a problem for you, they are not the end of the world, they won't stop you from continuing the discussion. I hope you understand me!
A last thing, just read her last two comments to know that she announced that "I will therefore leave your censored one alone." and that she said "Bye Bye"
The big problem is away now, she won't come back. So let's resume more civil & rewarding, and uninterrupted conversation. I and Rory want you to give us your comment about Zionism terrorism, and how it may have affected the relationship between Arabs and Israelis.
Waiting...
Ok, I don't normally visit blogs, but since I got a call from Valérie who was very upset, I thought I'd check things out.
Looking at the thread, what I see is:
Valérie blew her top off in view of Snake's past record of censoring anything he finds too disagreeable, and his polite yet disgracefully condescending and insulting manners to those who dare oppose his views.
His last comment attests of it. It is but one long deprecating insulting rant against Valérie. Yep, granted, no 4 letter words, not even 3 letter ones, but just read the vicious hateful contents. It's simply staggering.
Mohamed,
I hope you forgive Valérie for her outburst. She is the kindest, most tolerant person on earth. She is simply unable to stomach the injustices perpetrated by Israel against Arabs. She is also very annoyed at being ridiculed by Snake. It is a very frustrating experience to disagree with someone in a public forum, and that someone censors half your comments, therefore making your argumentation point of view look ridiculous.
This is Snake's technique on his blog. I know it is the case because, while I have not had the displeasure of experiencing it myself, I have 2 very close friends who have.
So, perhaps, you can understand and excuse her hot temper.
Snake,
"She Can Do It Without Using Too Many "Reviles", & Turn on the Sugar too. Also, She Will Stop Using All Of Those "Bad Words" If You Get Really Get Tough Enough (she really hates deletion; it's like taking a slap in the face)."
This, and the rest of your pompous speech, pretty much sums up what kind of person you are.
"you know where to find me. "
Of course: on your censored blog, right? Do you have so little pride in yourself that you must hide in your den and not have the guts to accept criticism in this open, censor-free blog? Perhaps Valérie was too vehement, but so what? Hasn't anyone the right to express their feelings in whatever way they wish? Do you expect Muslim civilians mass murdered by Israel to "have a civil, rewarding, and uninterrupted conversation"? Would you not rather expect them to scream in anger?
Mohamed,
I hope this wasn't too much of an intrusion. I will now leave you in peace. I thought it was my duty to see for myself and speak my mind. Valérie is a dear friend, and I could not stand to see her so upset.
If you wish to carry on a personal conversation with me, feel free. My email address is public and can be found on PP. Better still, to make it easier for you, here it is:
whynot@elektric-kat.com
Cheers, and keep up the good fight for Arabs and Muslims against the fascist, imperialist, US sponsored Israel abomination.
WhyNot.
To My Friend Mohamed,
You are probably confused by my recent actions; I feel that I owe you a full explanation of why I must sadly, reluctantly abandon all future contact with the "Understanding Islam" blog. Here's why:
Months ago I had a First Contact with Valerie, and in the course of a few Comments I quickly determined
that she added nothing of value to my efforts to run an Informative Weblog. Then her attitude took a "dark turn" and an unhealthy bitterness surfaced, so I deleted her.
I realize that all humans have negative & positive qualities, and Val is no different. I just don't have the time or patience to deal with her. She reacted quickly, by sending a nasty friend to cause trouble. His blog-name is S***Stirrer, and he monitored my Posts for a full five months with a
Series of Dirty Comments that I won't describe here. I had Lost my fine Open Forum format.
INADVERTENTLY, now I have exposed your weblog to this negativity, and I do regret it. I believe they will silently MONITOR YOU, waiting for an opportunity to jump back in.
If you visit their Posts & Comments, much of their Info is available on Wikipedia, and they discuss these subjects. At times, they amuse themselves by ridculing
other political beliefs, other religions, other individuals... that's their notions of Free Speech, and it gets quite crude and salacious (dirty stuff) intermittently...Who needs it?
When their Leader (Why Not) showed up, I knew that I was correct. He cleverly Hides His Profile by using a surrogate (Stilletto) as his shield. You can render your own judgement on character. He pulls the strings, and his puppets dance. I've seen this Act in various business activities I've been involved with for years, long ago. I observe & analyse; I know this guy, and he knows it.
Negatives & Positives are Everywhere! Be cautious. Of course you are always welcome on our weblog. I respect your efforts on behalf of Innocent Victims Anywhere. It's an Imperfect World.
"Terrorists" are there in All Armies, All Business & Politics, All Communication Systems, including the Internet. Also True...In All of the World's Great Religions. reb
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com
> Greybeard said:
Suddenly, "The Sound of Silence"
- gba -
Mohamed,
First I would like to comment on your "poll": "Targeting Palestinian & Israeli children is terrorism, regardless of the killer". We can't answer that question, because no one "targets" children, children are hurt if they are in the way of an invading army or a sneaky terrorist, who both kill, so they are both "killers". I say "sneaky" because that is the way terrorists operate; they are not an invading army of a sovereign nation, wearing uniforms, an army who lets you know in advance that they are coming.
The Palestinians knew the Israeli army would invade if they didn't stop sending rockets into Israel, and the Palestinians know that the Israelis have superior weapons and tanks and jet fighters. They insist on provoking Israel. In retaliation, and trying to eliminate caches of bombs and weapons, of course innocents are killed and hurt if they remain in a war zone.
Do the Palestinian fighters really think that once a superior war machine is unleashed that they will be allowed go home and have dinner with the family, then afterwards pick up their fight again from the neighborhood they live in with their wives and children? In a war there are no "tea breaks"! From the planes they can see where the gunfire or missile launchers come from, so that is what they are "targeting".
Maybe thinking if they allow their innocents to be killed, the Palestinans think they will garner enough world sympathy to stop the Israelis? It hasn't worked so far.
Now aboout History:
You said the people of the West must change their view of the conflict on this small part of the land--well, they never will. The West views this conflict from the perspective of world history, so it is you who have to learn history. You haven't been taught that. You are only taught Sharia law and Muslim and Arab history. Westerners have a saying, "all is fair in love and war". Innocents are always hurt in wars. That is the way it has always been. America beat Japan, Germany, etc. in wars. The Palestinian conflict is so close to you and you are so young. Westerners and Asians know what real war is with superior weapons of mass destruction. Pray that the Middle East never knows that.
Yes, there are two sides in the Palestinian conflict, and BOTH have ancestry in the land. You know that not all Jews were expelled from Judea by the Romans, but most were exiled to foreign lands. All those hundreds of years, wherever two Jews met, they would say "Next year in Jerusalem". They always had intentions of coming back, but the Russian pogroms and Hitler's genocides of the Jews solidified and streghthened their resolve to regain the land they say God gave them, as it says in their Book.
I know that you have been taught that the scriptures and prophets were originally Islamic and that the "People of the Book", as the Jews are known in the Qu'ran, corrupted them. I am of the opinion that both Christians and Muslims highjacked the Old Testament and made it their own with a few "embellishments". My opinion.
During WWII when the Jews wanted to escape Nazism, the world turned its back on them, even America wouldn't take them in. Those photos you see of the crematories and concentration camps full of starving skeletal Jews are very disturbing. Back then, there was a lot of racism against Jews and blacks and other minorities. Jews had no choice except to take the opportunity to go back to the land of their ancestors.
There are Jews and there are Jews, as there are Muslims and there are Muslims. I see on TV where the Israeli soldiers have to literally drag the Jewish fundamentalists out of their illegal West Bank settlements by their feet. They want all the land from the Jordan River to the sea--because "God gave [them] that land". Then you have the Palestinians who don't think Jews should have any land. It is a battle of ideologies, of two cultures and religions claiming superiority.
The Israelis didn't just use illegal means to take what they have taken. They shed their blood for that land, they conquered it against Englishmen and Arabs and others. The West recognizes Israel as a sovereign nation, rightly won in battle. Of course America will support Israel. It wasn't Israelis who ruined the Twin Towers and killed 3000 innocents. Arab Muslim fanatics ruined two buildings and an organized American military force took the whole country of Iraq.
In WWII the West took Japan, Germany, etc. and there have been no more wars there since. They rebuilt their infrastucture and now enjoy a better standard of life. Perhaps the Palestinians will have peace and a better standard of living if they lay down their arms. No one is going to kill innocents where there is no firing of missiles.
Don't take Israel lightly. Almost 500 years ago a few disgruntled Europeans who felt they had been abused in their ancestral lands came to the land where my people had lived for thousands of years. The Europeans were determined to have a better life than they had known. My people were determined to keep their lands. The invaders fought for that land for hundreds of years, and the few with superior weapons beat the many, and we have had peace here from sea to shinging sea for more than 100 years and our standard of living is the highest in the world. People still come, for a piece of that dream. It is still a better place than anywhere else in the world.
Emilie
Port Orchard, Washington State USA
WhyNot,
Thanks for passing-by.
I told Valerie that even if she disagree with someone she should use good words. Reviling do no thing. I agree with most of her perspectives, but I just reject personal insults in discussions.
Any way, thanks for your comment. I'm sure I'll have a conversation with you very soon :).
************************
Mr. reb,
I believe my "Understanding Islam" blog has NOT been cursed just because some visitors that you disagree with showed up. Just don't read their comments!!
Any way, there is no power that can force you not to abandon all future contact with my blog. It's your personal freedom.
I'm not confused by your actions towards Valerie, I'm confused by your refusal to answer my question. I don't know where is the problem. Is it about the place? You don't want to answer here because Valerie is here?
OK, you can answer on your blog. I don't have a problem about WHERE the answer is provided.
As a human, it's our nature to hate those who cause pain to those who we love; our family, our friends and our neighbors. That's just how we are.
I'm telling you then that those who claim being innocents now, who suffer from the "terrorists" in Palestine, are the same guys who contributed in or supported killing civilians and children more than 60 years ago. I'm telling you that what happened more than 60 years cannot be separated from the reaction that is happening now, that it's deeply connected to the continues fighting on this land.
This must be discussed. Is it true? Is it false? If true, how it shall affect our look to Israel, and to Palestinian resistance? If true, should Americans keep funding, paying their taxes, supporting, using Veto, sending weapons for the sake of Israel? ... and many other things that will be settled if we discussed these massacres that happened years ago.
At the end, you're welcomed on the blog all the time. And please remember that Valerie will NOT come back, she said it.
**************************
Madam Emilie,
Thanks for visiting my blog. It was my fault that I didn't response your last e-mail.
You believe that Israeli "state" made victory over Arabs, so that's their right to make their state, right?
Then should we ask how they made this victory? How they built their "state"? How they gained land?
Personally I believe that answering these questions will make us understand the conflict. That's why I made this post listing massacres and terrorist attacks that have been committed by founders of this "state". They were attacking villages and killing randomly all living things, they were aiming at terrorizing these villages and neighbor ones so as to force them to leave, then they remove the "old" houses and build their "settlements"!! They forced Millions of Palestinians across the 60 years to leave the lands where they were born. Can you imagine it? Leaving your land where your home, all the family and friends JUST for the sake of another person who never saw it before!! As for me there is no thing can justify that, even if I'm a looser in the war, International law, Geneva conventions assure that no one can force another people to leave his land, it's a violation of international law.
This Israeli factory or that Jewish temple is just where there were a Palestinian family living in peace 60 years ago that have been its men executed and their women raped, or a mosque that have been burnt after being filled by the blood of the safe prayers. Believe it!! That's exactly what happened in many villages.
Madam Emilie, you said that no one "targets" children!!
"17. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him." Numbers Chapter 31:17
That's stated in Old Testament!!
I don't understand yet how you believe about conflicts. You always say that "Might makes right" which means that a powerful entity can dominate land and people on that land and force its own rules upon them. Then I promise you, if I became a president of a powerful state the first thing I would make is; attacking and destroying Israel. No body can blame me, I'M MIGHTY.
Would you support me then?!!!!!!!!
I'm afraid to tell you that even if Palestinians did not launch any rockets, no thing would change. Palestinians will be killed too. Just search history, you don't have to go so far, this post is just a simple example of this history. I read a story before which I didn't have the chance to check its accuracy but I believe Zionist culture would make it. The story tells that after an attack against a village, Israeli soldiers took some Palestinian women, bared them from their clothes(!!), forced them to make a racing in the street!!
There is something important, when Palestinians make their attacks against the Israeli occupiers they want to achieve two targets (from my personal view); the first is sending a message to Israelis that Palestinians don't accept them as a state on their lands, the second is to prevent more Jewish immigrants into Palestine and make the occupiers leave the occupied land. I think the two goals are achieved.
When two Jews met, they would say "Next year in Jerusalem". So let me ask you what two Palestinians say when they meet? Jews say that about a land that they never saw, maybe their ancestors thousands of years ago, but Jews of today NEVER did. What about Millions of Palestinians who were pushed into the sea to save their lives leaving their lands?!!! A 70 years old Palestinian in a Lebanese or Syrian refugee camp really lived on these lands 60 years ago, but an American, British or Russian Jew NEVER saw this land. Do they have the same right to live on this land?!!
Unfortunately I'm afraid that you may shock me by saying; "Palestinians never had a state" or "Jews made victory" or "Might makes right".
It wasn't Israelis who ruined the Twin Towers and killed 3000 innocents, but it was Israel who ruined hundreds of civil Palestinian homes and killed tens of thousands innocents!!
I understand very well that Jews suffered and were expelled from Palestinian lands, but this no way justifies causing sufferance and expelling of another people.
Madam Emilie, I would like to ask you to give me a sole comment about the subject of the post. I stated some massacres and terrorist attacks by Zionists and IDF against unarmed Palestinians leaving many deaths, orphans and widows. I'm very interested to know what do you think about my perspective that these massacres are the main cause why Palestinians choose to fight not to make peace with those who kill their fathers, mothers and neighbors. Do you agree that these massacres across the years justifies Palestinian resistance against the killers?
There is a last thing about Rachiel Corrie. If you saw this image
http://www.alriyadh.com/2006/10/22/img/221172.jpg
you can realize two things. The driver can see it very well, the second is that she had a speaker in her hands, he can hear her.
Thanks for your comment, I hope you keep visiting my blog.
Mohamed
Mohamed,
You said, "Do you agree that these massacres across the years justifies Palestinian resistance against the killers?"
I believe that in the beginning such resistance was to be expected, but after so many years, after so many innocents killed because Palestinians fight "guerilla" style without putting their innocents in safer places, it is no longer justified in view of the superior forces of a powerful invading army.
You go into such detail about all the atrocities that the Palestinians are suffering. Don't you hear me when I say that I come from a people that suffered everything the Palestinians have suffered---they suffered the same things for hundreds of years, not just 60 years. They too were massacred, etc, maybe millions of them, over a span of hundreds of years. My people were pushed off their land in every way that you say the Palestinians have been pushed off theirs, and they suffered greatly for resisting.
The invaders from Europe had never been here before, not even their ancestors. At least the ancestors of the Jews had been in Judea. Finally, my people saw how futile their resistance was and they put down their arms forever, and if they fought again, it was for their conqueror, and life has been better for all. Every man in my family since 1852 has fought for the American flag.
The conquerors themselves had suffered under regimes in their original homelands, so that is why they struck out for new lands across the sea to conquer. They conquered a vast territory, thousands of times bigger than little Palestine. Look at a map of my hemisphere, and see how much land the European conquerors took for themselves. Whole continents.
What has happened to the Palestinians at the hands of militant fundamentalist Zionists can't compare to what my people suffered or to what other peoples have suffered, not when you compare it to all the wars in history. I keep wondering when the Palestinians will realize it is so futile to continue to resist. Maybe after another 300-400 years?
I too had to learn the history of my people, the way you have been studying the history of the Palestinian-Israeli conflicts. You still have the rage of recent discovery, along with the fact that the conflict is happening right now almost at your door.
I am an old woman now, there is no more rage in me, just sadness that some cultures survive at the cost of others, but that is all ancient history. We can't go back and reverse history; we deal with what we end up with. I support those of my people who need financial help, but I would not support those who would try to wage an insurgency against the American government. There are war captains in my tribe, but they have fought their battles in the courts. They lost most of the time. If you support Hamas, they will only use the money to bring in more missiles; they won't spend it to protect the innocents.
I know that the Arabs or Muslims look to the International Court for justice for the Palestinians, but some countries choose to ignore those suggestions, and what power does the court have to effect compliance? Nations will cooperate with such international groups as long as there are no repercussions for themselves.
You are so "hung up" on the word "terrorist". By that I mean that you have grabbed onto that word and won't let go. It doesn't matter what the Americans or Israelis call the "guerrilla" groups. If some use the word "terrorist" it means those that do "sneak attacks" when there was an agreed upon cease-fire. If Palestinians agree to a cease-fire, and then go ahead and start shooting missiles again without warning during that cease-fire, then they are called "terrorists" even if you or the Palestinians are insulted by that word, and the more powerful, better organized enemy will retaliate.
You asked me to give you a sole answer, but you in your comment covered many topics, and you sound so angry using "!!!!" and CAPITAL letters. That is like yelling at me. You call this blog "Understanding Islam", but you have made the blog only about the Palestinian situation, when Westerners are more concerned about the battles between Shia and Sunni and the apparent subjugation of women in many of the Muslim countries. I wish you could get back to how you started this blog, before you became obsessed with Palestine. You're not helping us to understand Islam, or maybe you have.
I have learned that no Arab or Muslim will ever back down in a debate with a Westerner, so how do you expect Westerners to agree with your point of view? I have learned that the uppermost desire of any Arab or Muslim is to see Israel fall, and to impose Sharia law wherever they can.
You asked that if you became president of a nation and were able to muster the forces to attack and destroy Israel would I support you? I don't think so; many Western countries are committed to seeing Israel remain a state. I don't think the West will abandon Israel. I don't think the Arab world would want to bring a world war to their lands because of Palestine. Some, such as Iran, support Palestine not out of concern for Palestine but for their own purpose. I doubt that anyone can destroy Israel; you don't know how powerful they are.
Now you have made clear to me the two goals the Palestinians want to accomplish by continuing their missile attacks agains Israel: "sending a message to Israelis that Palestinians don't accept them as a state on their lands, the second is to prevent more Jewish immigrants into Palestine and make the occupiers leave the occupied land". Well, then there won't be peace there for hundreds of years because the fundamentalist Israelis are just as determined to have all the land from the Jordan River to the sea.
I don't think you want to see the Americans get more involved---they are a million times more powerful than the Israelis. Remember, they won world wars against the Japanese, the Germans, killed millions and shed their own blood also. Be careful what you pray for. God/Allah has no favorites among men; He allows men to win some, and lose some, no matter what Muslims or Christians, etc. think about whose religion is the right one.
Emilie
Port Orchard, Washington State - USA
Madam Emilie,
You must understand some very important thing. I have a very red line in my life, this red line is "Respecting elderly". I won't allow myself to insult or "yell" at a person who is older than me. This is in my real life and on the web. So, I'll never yell at you. Beside that we both are friend since your first e-mail for me in 2006..It's 3 years :). I respect you as a friend at the first regard and second as a person who's older than me.
I don't know how you understood the marks (!!!!!), but when I type them or type in capital letters I just want to focus on some subject. That's it, I hope you aren't angry.
I understand very well that your people whether as Mexican or Native American have suffered too much from the European savages (English or Spanish). I know they used every mean to annihilate the Natives in American lands and in Mexico. I know they did massacres against Natives of America when they killed Millions (maybe 3 quarters the Native people), and I'm sorry for all of that.
You told me that your people decided to "give up" resisting the "more powerful" invaders. BUT you forgot something, what your people has chosen isn't the same choice that another people would make. It's that simple; your people decided to give up resistance, Palestinians people didn't, they choose to resist, fight and kick the occupiers away!! Every people has the right to make his own choice and bear the results of this choice. They would pay lives of its young men for the sake of its independence, freedom and dignity. That's the expensive price of peoples' dignity. We aren't so sad or objecting for the loss of Palestinian men who die fighting against the Israeli occupiers, that's how independence war always work. But the the thing that we completely refuse and blows up our anger is the massacres that were (and are) committed against villagers and children, the excessive power that is always used in the wrong places, the demolishing of homes of Palestinians, the evacuating of Palestinians from their homes in Jerusalem (Israeli authorities may remove 1700 homes in Jerusalem this year), the cutting of olive trees (You're a garden lover, why they would make such a horrible thing!!), beside the targeting of civil homes, hospitals and schools in all of Israeli wars; Egypt, Gaza, Lebanon, etc. These things what make we hate Israel, it's not a hatred against "WHO THEY ARE", but instead against "WHAT THEY DO".
You may say; but there have been more of innocents of Native Americans than Palestinians that have been killed even children, but peace prevailed at last. OK, things have changed, in the foregoing centuries the powerful can do everything without any blame; occupy lands and annihilate peoples. But now there is a United Nations that gather all world states which states in its charter preamble that all peoples agree to live in peace, there is the International court of justice that pursue war criminals like the Serbian Milosovic, there is an international jurisdiction of all courts related to war crimes that allow any court in any state to judge those who're accused of committing war crimes even if the crime didn't occur on its province, there is also the Media that reveal what politicians hide.
All these things justifies the choice of fighting not peace. huh, what peace!! Madam Emilie, for how many year there have been "peace" negotiations between PLO and Israel? Tens of years!! And what have we achieved?!! We "achieved" more settlements built, more Palestinians killed, maimed or arrested (8000 prisoners (240 child, 70 woman)), more tunnels under the Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem that threatens its collapse, more evacuation of Palestinians in Jerusalem, more mosques attacked, more demolishing of homes, more bulldozing of farms, etc. The question is; Is that how a party act, when he claims that he want "peace"?!! I doubt it.
You said about your people's experience; "Finally, my people saw how futile their resistance was and they put down their arms forever, and if they fought again, it was for their conqueror, and life has been better for all." OK, I congratulate you for this success, America now is a powerful state, but do you think such experience would ever apply for the Palestinian-Israeli conflict? I mean; if Palestinians decided to "put down their arms forever", would they see the day when they "fight again for their conquerer"?!!
THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN. I know what are you thinking at right now. No, I'm not talking about the refusal from the Palestinian side to condescend to Israelis, but I'm talking about the refusal from Israeli side itself to accept such condescend. Yes Madam Emilie, Israelis aren't ready to accept Palestinians among them as "members in the Israeli society". IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. You yourself said that they believe that this land is promised TO THEM (TO JEWS) by God from the river to the sea. Would you ever think that they would allow a non-Jew to live on the promised land!!
In fact the current situation proves this will never happen. Arabs of Israel (Arabs that own Israeli IDs) suffer from discrimination in their daily life, attacks from settlers, threat of evacuation from their homes, etc. The claims of Israeli will of peace are all just illusion. Israelis must thank Hamas and all Palestinian resisting movements because they are fighting them! Yes, if the resistance declared the stop of fighting the reality of Israeli (Zionism) will show up. Because so simply, Israelis will continue the killing of innocents, evacuating families from their homes, bulldozing homes. They will find some justification!! Don't be amazed from this perspective; Israelis started their massacres early before a Palestinian hold a gun or a stone and started resisting them. So, whether there is Palestinian resistance or there is not, Israelis want the whole land ONLY FOR JEWS.
There is another thing, you said many times that war has ended, Arabs lost it, so their fighting is no more justified, right?
Wars ended by some approved ways; maybe the weaker side declares its surrender like what Japanese did after the two American nuclear bombs, or by a treaty of peace signed by the warring parties like what we did after we beat Israelis in 1973. That's how wars are ended. No thing of these happened. Israelis occupied the lands of Palestinians but Palestinians never declared their surrender, and there weren't any peace treaty between the two sides, maybe peace negotiations but never led to a positive thing. So, the war hasn't ended yet.
When the war hasn't ended in Palestine, however Israeli occupiers brought more and more Jews from their original countries (USA, Russia, England, Morocco, etc) into Palestine. So, who's responsible for killing those innocents non-combat Jews? The one who kept fighting ON HIS LAND and NEVER DECLARED THE END OF THE WAR, or the side who brought them from their original countries HOWEVER THE WAR HAS NOT ENDED to a non-safe land (a war ground) so as to use them as human shields?!! You answer.
A last thing about your rule; "Might makes right." I don't believe in it at all, instead I believe in "Might protects right" and "Right makes me mighty". But OK let's follow your rule and see who is mighty and who has the right as a result. This conflict has never been just between only Palestinians and Israelis, since it started it has been between Arabs against Israelis, remember the war of 1948! And it's still between Arabs and Israel, maybe we aren't fighting right now, but it's just because of the governments. Anyway, let's make a little counting.. Israel is ONE ENTITY, Arabs are 22 STATES, Israeli population is 6 Million, Arabs population is 339 Million, Arabs total area is 14 Million km2 Israel's area is .. not specified yet. So, if we just depended on that would we say; when Arabs are MIGHTIER than Israeli entity, then would they have the RIGHT to invade it?!!
Sincerely,
Mohamed
Madam Emilie,
You're right that I have focused on Palestinian issue so much that I left the main purpose of the blog. But every time I intend to make something about Islamic religion Israelis do something against Palestinians, I can't see my brothers being killed and accused in the same time of being terrorists and just do no thing.
Any way, I'm reading now a book about prophet Muhammad, I may make a post soon about the prophet. Also I may make a post answering the question; "What does Qur'an say about terrorism?".
Please pray that Israelis don't destroy a home, or kill a child until I make these posts.
Mohamed
"Israeli government recently announced that the siege over Gaza will not be ended until Gilad Shalit be released."
This little announcement must make us question about if;
imprisoning ONE SOLDIER can ever result in and equaled by
imprisoning 1.5 MILLION CIVILIANS?!!
One {} 1.5
Soldier {} Civilians
Are we brave enough to answer?
Mohamed,
So, if releasing one Israeli soldier will end the siege over Gaza, why not release him? Is he still alive? I hope he is still alive. Don't Palestinians care as much about the 1.5 million "civilians" (with how many thousands of insurgents among them?) as the Israelis care about their one soldier?
You also said, "Arabs of Israel (Arabs that own Israeli IDs) suffer from discrimination in their daily life, attacks from settlers, threat of evacuation from their homes, etc." Well, what else is new? My people suffered those same things for 400-500 years, until we were forced to assimilate or agreed to stay on reservations in order to preserve some of our languages and cultures.
I experience a certain rage when I hear some American of European-descent say, "My family were the first settlers [in this county]", and I think, "What about my Piro-Tewa people who were here for thousands of years?" When I last visited the Tigua Pueblo, I saw a poster in the gift shop that said "If you steal this poster, you will have taken everything from us" directed at non-Native tourists. But the rage subsides when I realize I live a much better life than many of those of European descent, thanks to them. I learned from those of them who succeeded to a better life, and the more empathetic of them helped me. So, I know the rage felt by displaced Palestinians. But I wish they would realize how much better life would be if they stopped sending rockets and provoking the Israelis.
Yes, I know that the fundamentalist Jews might then feel free to build more settlements where it was agreed they wouldn't, but the arrangements would have to be made, and the Israelis would have to agree, to guard against that, and remove any illegal settlements. There must be ONE Israel, not two, one moderate and the other fundamentalist. Which will it be?
You see, there are "Americans" and there are "Americans", most moderate, some not. In order for there to be peace and adhere to a moral high ground, moderates have to rule. I told you there are Jews and there are Jews. The hope of the Palestinians lies with the moderate Jews who want to have a better life for themselves and are willing to extend that to the Palestinians. Don't excuse the Palestinian missiles by saying they just want to discourage further immigration to Israel. It didn't work in my country. The Europeans kept coming and annihilating until they were the majority.
You are concerned about the Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem, but Jews have the means to ensure that no building will collapse while excavating around it. They are superior builders. Jerusalem is holy to Jews and Christians also, always has been, so the three faiths should work together and ensure that the holy places remain for the world to enjoy.
Yes, I know there is only one Israel surrounded by 22 Arab countries, but those countries have historically been at war with each other, with tribal differences, (tribal differences is what helped the Europeans beat the Native Americans) Shia against Sunni, etc. and none of them have committed to aid the Palestinians other than provide some few missiles. Yes, I know about the 1948 war. Little Israel was attacked by as many as seven Arab countries. I think Israel won that war, no? And they were not equipped as well as they are now.
You also said, "A last thing about your rule; 'Might makes right.' I don't believe in it at all, instead I believe in 'Might protects right' and 'Right makes me mighty'. It is not MY rule, it is a fact that there have always been wars over land and the mightiest win and then make all the rules. I am protected by local police, and the mightiest military in the world. Didn't Arab Muslims invade other lands and "protected" the non-Muslims by extracting the "Dhimmi"? Well, I am protected in that same sense.
You want justice, I know, but Justice moves so slowly, and in some cases it isn't to be found. How many centuries did my people and the descendants of black slaves wait for even a little justice? It is the moral high ground that will bring some justice, not irritating missiles against a powerful conqueror. Remember Ghandi and Martin Luther King.
You say it is different now with world agencies like the UN, the International Courts, the Geneva Convention to hold states accountable. Well, when some members of those groups agree that some states are "war criminals" and there are others in those same groups who say those states are only waging "legitimate war" then nothing will be done. You see, there is always warring going on, even in the UN, etc.
My husband says you are confusing "terrorism" with WAR. Terrorists are SNEAKY---they come UNANNOUNCED, with bombs strapped to themselves, women and children even, and kill innocents too along with their targets. What was the attack on the World Towers? It was a sneak attack by jihadists using stolen planes and ruining some wonderful buildings full of innocents. Sneaky and unfair. A violation of the rules of war. And it provoked the most powerful military in the world. It doesn't matter who started the Palestinian-Israeli conflct. It is time to end it. If the moderates among the Palestinians and the Israelis can't get their malcontents to behave themselves, then there will always be war there. Sixty years is nothing to my people or the Jews. As long as man has been on this earth there have been wars, and always will be.
I am glad you are going to start concentrating more on the Qu'ran, and remember how the Prophet made the people be more moderate. Yes, more moderate. Remember you told me that the tribes had so little regard for female babies that when they were born they "buried them in the dust" and that the Prophet told the people to stop doing that? He REFORMED their traditional tribal practices for the moral high ground in that way. That was the whole point of the Qu'ran, it is the whole point of the New Testament, etc. Morality should rule over politics, not become the politics. I think Arabs need to let their moderates speak and bring about more reformation in Islam.
A reformation of Islam should bring about more enlightenment about what is really right and wrong---old tribal customs need to be re-examined, they are part of the ancient past, such as killing baby girls as soon as they were born. Women should not be treated like possessions, should not be "buried in the dust" or completely under a cumbersome burka anymore, or hide their faces behind a mask, they should not be beaten or murdered for "disobedience", not be-headed, etc. People everywhere should be free to practice a religion or not practice one, should be free to change religions.
You said, "'What does Qur'an say about terrorism?'. Please pray that Israelis don't destroy a home, or kill a child until I make these posts". Yes, we would all be interested in what the Qu'ran says about "terrorism". I am sure you will find that it makes a distinction between terrorism and war. Until then, we should pray that the Palestinians don't destroy an Israeli home or innocent with their missiles and provoke the Israelis again.
Emilie
Port Orchard, Washington State, USA
Snake Hunters,
"His blog-name is S***Stirrer"
I believe you mispelled my nickname. It is ShitStirrer. Do you suffer from Parkinson ailment and can't type straight, or is your computer keyboard itself so censored that it is impossible to type a very simple, common word, used by everybody every day, including children, and clearly listed in the Webster dictionary?
"I had Lost my fine Open Forum format."
Man, you're so grotesque it ain't funny. You're an embarrassment to me and all my fellows Americans. French Valérie has become a pretty good friend over the years of meeting her at "Pourquoi Pas?". I enjoy the cultural mix over there, in particular the US/Russian/European mix.
It takes us Americans a peg or two down from our imperialist superiority-complex view of the world. Something you'd be well advised to think over before your time is due to finally stop spewing messages of hatred against Muslims.
"When their Leader (Why Not) showed up, I knew that I was correct. He cleverly Hides His Profile by using a surrogate (Stilletto) as his shield. You can render your own judgement on character. He pulls the strings, and his puppets dance. I've seen this Act in various business activities I've been involved with for years, long ago. I observe & analyse; I know this guy, and he knows it."
Wow, you're not only pathetic but you're also a fabricator of lies. I've known WhyNot for years. Your claim of "business activities" is so ridiculous I wonder how senile you have become. Or is it because it is in your nature to invent anything you can think of to slander other people? So... "you have been involved with him for years"? Hahaha, man, you really have no shame lying through your teeth and inventing any fictitious story you can think of, have you?
"Until you decide to "moderate" and filter this Post, I cannot return here; it is my poor judgement that has done this to your post."
No, the REAL reason is that you are racist and xenophobic and cannot stand people disagreeing with you. On your blog you have the choice of systematically block any comment you find too dangerously close to exposing your racist views, whereas here, you can't do this.
THAT is the real reason why you "cannot return here", Reb. Be a man, not a mouse, admit it.
"Then I was forced to "moderate" S/H, because First Valerie came, then her friends began to show up!!! "
Once again you prove what a liar you really are. The only "friends" of Valérie who ever showed up on your despicable blog is me, and this makes it singular "friend", not plural "friends".
I don't know Valérie at a personal level (I don't have email contact with her, my only contact is years of common blogging on PP), but I feel I (and many other people) have come to being able to judge her character and manners.
As a result, when she claims you censor her for a yes or a no, I certainly believe her a thousand times more than your endless litany of lies which you so generously display here.
Be real, Reb: you are a liar, you're racist, and you make me and 300 million other Americans embarrassed to think we are from the same country.
PS: Mohamed: although I disagree with your views regarding "bad language" (and as you see, I have made reasonable efforts to keep my speech "clean"), I believe you have a fine blog, and more importantly, a fine message to deliver to the West.
Please don't think all Americans are xenophobic, warmongering racists like Snake Hunters.
Mohamed,
It was predicted in advance of this trash; the Snake Hunter knew it!
1) They will monitor you
2) They will revile
3) They will corrupt
4) WhyNot will send his minions
5) The chosen 'nickname' here is a small sample of a weak mind. -gba-
Greybeard, Al
One Final Thing,
I've just discussed Mr S/S crude remarks with my old friend the Snake Hunter, and he makes this necessary clarification only for Mohamed's benefit.
1) There Are Three Unpublished Comments, not Two, from the PP bloggers; one from WhyNot, several from Valerie, and a long string of the gutter-language comments from the S***Stirrer over five months. (I've personally seen the printed file.)
2) Although he has never met or discussed ANY issue personally with
the mysterious Mr. WhyNot, he has had throughout his long life, met many individuals of this ilk, and will not permit Comments like His or Yours, to ever appear on his moderated blogsite. Imagine that!
Now, you really should allow Mohamed and Emily to get back to their primary goal of exchanging viewpoints, without interruption.
Clear enough? - gba -
Greybeard Albert
Hello,
I'm new to this blog and I respect your respect for your elders so I'll tell you I'm 61 years old and have no problem with you saying something to me if you disagree. I do appreciate your attempt at keeping the conversation polite.
The problem between Israel and the Palestinians, indeed the Muslims, goes back to the days of Abraham or Ibrahim as the Muslims call him.
The God of Israel (Whom I happen to believe in) sent angels to tell Abraham (I'll use that term since it's quicker and no offense intended) his wife Sarah would have his son.
Believing she was too old to bear a child she instructed Abraham to sleep with her servant, an Egyptian woman, and the offspring would be her child as custom dictated if the wife had no children the children of her husband and her slave would be her children. The son born was Ishmael, but Ishmael was not the son God promised Abraham.
Later Sarah did become pregnant with Abraham's son, Isaac. She then became jealous of Ishmael and told Abraham to send them away.
Ishmael's mother prayed to this foreign God to save her and her son. He promised He would and also promised that Ishmael would be the father of a great nation, more than could be numbered by the sands of the ocean. But, he was not to be the one that was blessed by God the way Isaac would be.
It was through Isaac that the Jews finally came into being. Ishmael fathered the Muslims.
They've been fighting ever since, just as God said they would.
Palestine comes from the old word Philistine, and in the Bible we read of the defeat of the Philistines and the wars between them and Israel.
Israel was scattered because they had disobeyed God and for hundreds of years they were scattered around the world, but they never lost their common language or faith.
In 1946-1948 Great Britain had carved out slices of the Mid-East to make Jordan, Saudi Arabia and other countries including Israel.
The part that was carved out for Israel was in a desert with enemy countries surrounding her. In fact, a war started almost immediately by those countries invading the new country.
Israel gave the Palestinian people the opportunity to stay where they were and to participate in their government and society. They would keep their homes and land. Most of the Palestinians refused and left. They ended up in Jordan and Gaza.
In 1967 the surrounding countries (including Egypt) started another war against Israel and when it was all over Israel had captured the West Bank and Jerusalem. They took the land as spoils of war. A war they did not start.
Now Jordan and Egypt did not allow these poor Palestinians to go back to their countries, the countries of their birth and made them stay in what they call the "occupied" territories.
The Arab world has made many pleas for the Palestinians, but have never really offered to help them get out of the situation they are now in.
They have never helped to build infrastructure or to do anything other than supply arms to those whose mission is to drive Israel into the sea and completely annihilate the Jewish people.
Meanwhile, despite all the money the US and other countries have given to the Palestinians they still live in squalor, in ghettos that breed contempt.
We see this in the US and any country that has slums. The people do not like their station in life so they turn to crime. In this case, terrorism against Israel instead of fighting their own leaders who have gotten rich off money intended to give the populace a clean environment in which to live. Just look at how much money Yasser Arafat had at his death and ask where he got it.
This problem will never be resolved without an all-out war. It is my belief, based on biblical prophecy, that a big war will be started with Iran, Syria, Israel, Egypt, Libya all fighting against Israel and if not for the hand of God intervening Israel will be destroyed. God will not allow it because, even though He calls Israel hard-headed, He loves them and will protect them.
We can talk about a solution all day and all night, but true peace will never take place in that part of the world until God intervenes.
Respectfully,
Jeanette
Jeanette,
Tap Snake Hunters name (in blue, third comment down from top) and
comment there if you wish. All decent comments are accepted there from liberals or conservatives. -gba-
Greybeard, Albert
__________________________________
Madam Emilie,
Last week I watched a part of a program called "The Devil Arabs" on Al-Jazeera Documentary channel. I will tell you about parts of the show before I tell you what it was about.
"We should attack Americans where they live, eat and play." "We should make more victims as we can, that's our target."
Yes, it's Hollywood movies. The systematic image of an Arab (Muslim) in American media. Kill as much as you can then you're a good and faithful person. Make them always afraid and the mission is accomplished. They showed a part of a movie that I don't remember it's title; it happened in Yemen in an American military base there, the movie shows some Yemenis demonstrating outside the walls of the base, then suddenly American soldiers open the fire against them killing kids, women and men!! An American detective comes to investigate, he finds a little girl with one leg and a wooden stick (She lost her because of the American fire) he tails her to find tens of maimed and wounded kids and women. The movie takes you back in a flashback to reveal "the truth". It shows the same scene but the audience is shocked by finding out that this maimed little girl had an automatic gun, all the demonstrates (little girls, boys, women, men) were holding guns and automatic weapons, they started firing at the American base. American soldiers were defending themselves against those armed Arabs. In the middle of the Arab firing, the camera shows an American soldier sheltering when the sound of Arab guns is too loud saying; "Kill these pasters"!!
This scene is repeated and repeated hundreds of times in tens of American movies in different ways. Maybe in very very few movies they show a balanced image of Arabs like "Kingdom of Heaven" that shows Saladin in a Church in Jerusalem after freeing it from Crusade occupation, he finds a cross on the ground, he holds it respectfully and put it on the church's altar. When showed in a Lebanese cinema the audience clapped for this scene. But the major image is that Arabs are just devil persons. They brainwash American people to think that Arabs are not like Americans and Europeans. A Muslim or Arab father is just like an American father who cares for his sons, a Muslim mother is just like any American mother who loves her sons daughters, a Muslim teenager is like an American teenager.
Madam Emilie, can you see why I'm saying all this stuff? If you have such an image like that, then killing one.. tens.. thousands of Palestinian "terrorists" and the families of the "terrorists", the children of the "terrorists," the friends of the "terrorists and the neighbors of the "terrorists" is not a big deal. They made it for themselves, they use their kids to bomb or attack innocents, their kids have guns and grenades in their school bags, they use their families as human shields, their first rule is "MORE VICTIMS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING". They are hiding somewhere to kill civil Jews!! I believe that's the image of Palestinians in the minds of most of the Americans, that's why Americans don't say; "Oh, what a poor Palestinian child killed without doing anything to Israelis!", but they say instead; "What a poor Israeli civilian killed by the Palestinian terrorists.", they say; "Hamas must stop first killing the individuals of Israelis, then Israelis will stop killing thousands of Palestinians."
There is a very "illogical logic" when Americans try to judge this conflict. They can see the one.. two.. ten Israelis who are injured or killed in an occupied land, but they can never see thousands of Palestinians civilians and children that are being killed and maimed for life.
If releasing one Israeli soldier will end the siege over Gaza, why not release him
Madam Emilie, are you talking seriously?!!!!!!!!
One soldier equals 1.5 Million civilians?!!
Soldier vs civilians!!
1's freedom vs 1.500.000's freedom!!
Where is the logic in that?!!!
You know, there is only one thing that can justifies this perspective. I mean the Israeli logic that imprisoning 1 soldier is a reasonable justification to imprison 1.5 Million civilians. It's a philosophy less than 100 years old. It's called Nazism!! They believed that there are races that are higher than other races, there are better races than others, they strongly believed that not all races are equal, they strongly believed that the lower races have no right to live, .... they annihilated them!!
Just review few very recent numbers and see if the beliefs of Nazism apply on Israelis. Killing 1400 Palestinians (approx. 1100 non-warriors) for killing 13 Israelis. ((((107 Palestinians for every Israeli)))) Locking 1.500.000 Palestinians for locking 1 Israeli. ((((It's exactly 1.500.000 Palestinians for every Israeli))))
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not yelling at you. It's my response for these crazy formulas.
You said; but Jews have the means to ensure that no building will collapse while excavating around it. They are superior builders.
No, a UN school near Al-Aqsa mosque had a part of it collapsed few weeks ago. It was because of the excavations. The mosque is in real danger. They want its collapse. Their belief is that Solomon's temple is exactly under the mosque. It's a state based on a religious belief.
For now, if we'll agree that terrorists are "sneaky", then let's talk a little about the "sneaky" attacks of Irgun and Lehi Zionist movements. How they were bombing trains and how they were bombing children and women. You can read the post. That's how this "state" has been established, the "sneaky" attacks that forced thousands of Palestinians to leave their homes, villages and farms. Israelis came, demolished the old homes, built new settlements, new factories, .. on the dead villages, on the bodies of the murdered Palestinians, who were killed and terrorized to immigrate by the "sneaky" Zionist attackers. That's the true image of this "state". A democratic, peaceful and successful state at the surface, but deep inside there is a bloody origin.
I told you that I hope that Israelis do no thing wrong to Palestinians until I make a post about Islam. But they did a very bad thing. The government now has a very extremist member, Liberman, the new Foreign Affairs minister. He want to send all Palestinians out of "Israel", he threatened of attacking our High Dam, he said about our president; "Go to hell!!". When such person is a Foreign Affairs minister, do you think it's a brilliant future for peace in the area?
Hope to hear from you soon,
Regards,
Mohamed
Mohamed & Emilie,
What we see here on this page are many words graphically describing the young victims of war.
Read both sides, from Saladin & the Crusades to modern times.
Both sides in this conflict have these stories, in words and now also on film. Both sides have Mountains of Propaganda Like This, to inflame emotions, fire up ordinary people into more acts of violence, and the endless war continues.
Mohamed is clearly sincere with his words, but he throws gasoline on the flames. Mohamed (bless his heart) never offers a Solution to this Jew-baiting, Jew-Hating Muslim Mentality. Nothing!
It's just more of the same. - gba -
- Greybeard Albert -
Mohamed, Greybeard Al says...
My old friend, 'Reb The Snake Hunter' has asked me to cordially invite you to visit with him in a more secure place, to continue with this rewarding discussion.
If you choose to accept, he is anxious to answer your questions about "Zionist Terrorism".
Just go to the Nonie Darwish Post...
"Now They Call Me Infidel", then to the 'Comment Section' > > >
> www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com
- Greybeard Albert -
Mohamed,
Quoting Greybeard:
"My old friend, 'Reb The Snake Hunter' has asked me to cordially invite you to visit with him in a more secure place, to continue with this rewarding discussion."
I'll translate this into plain English for you Mohamed. Your "insecure place" is insecure because you give people freedom of speech to a large degree. This, in the eyes of censorship fanatics of the Snake and Greybeard kind means "danger!!!! People might come up with valid arguments against ours!"
"A more rewarding" discussion on Snake's blog means Snake and Greaybeard will censor anything they disagree with, so naturally the discussion will be extremely "rewarding" to them.
Snake is so desperate for attention he doesn't know what to do. Because he has censored so many people, everybody has deserted his blog. On his last post, he just keeps commenting to himself. It's pityful.
Don't give in, Mohamed. If he IS sincere engaging in discussions, he can do it here where you at least provide a reasonable shield of freedom of expression, whereas his blog is... censorhip PLUS.
Madam Jeanette,
Welcome to you on my blog.
I appreciate your review of prophet Abraham's story and his sons'. The Jewish story and the Muslim story are not the same.
There are some points that I disagree with.
You said that Jews didn't lost their common language or faith. But I know that the Jewish language was almost dead, it was restricted in the religious use in temples, it wasn't allowed to be used in public, but it's Eliezer Ben-Yehuda who made it reborn, he even invented new words.
Jews also aren't the people that haven't been touched or interfered by foreign elements as they claim. Since the Babylonian captivity, Jews merged in the new society, became traders, married from the people of Babylon. This happened also recently, before the Jewish immigration to the entity of Israel (1948) they were Russians, Americans, Moroccans, etc, they were part of these societies, they married there from non-Jews and merged in these societies. But that's Zionists who convinced them to leave their homelands and original states to go to a land where they never saw before, Palestine.
I know all what is said about Armageddon and the last battle between Jews and others. We Muslims have a similar prophecy; a war will break out between Jews and Muslims, Jews will be leaded by a man who claims to be God and will make some miracles, Muslims will be leaded by prophet Jesus who will descend from the sky, prophet Jesus will kill this man. That's how we Muslims believe. But this don't mean that we won't try to settle the present conflict, or believe that no thing will settle it but the last battle. That's a thing that I disobey with you.
I'm amazed of how Americans and most of the Westerns are very mad of supplying rockets and guns to Palestinian resistance, but it's OK to supply arms, air fighters, F16, F22, phantoms, smart rockets, helicopters, tanks, White Phosphorus bombs, etc to Israelis!!
There is something illogical!!
Thanks for your comment.
Regards,
Mohamed
Albert,
OK, if you will choose to be a "mediator" between me and Mr. reb then you don't have to bother yourself.
I'm interested to continue the discussion with Mr. reb. I didn't understand why he decided to "abandon every future contact with my blog". I don't understand why he "asked you" to "invite me" to "visit with him" in a secure place?!! He could do it directly to me!! I didn't understand what is a "more secure place"?!! It's completely secured here, there is no "internet police" that watch posts and comments, there is no power that will send to jail those who freely express their opinions.
Anyway, when he decided to answer my questions about Zionism terrorism and how it's deeply related to the current Palestinian resistance, then it'll be my pleasure to hear his words. You can inform him, if he didn't read these words by himself, that I'll watch the Nonie's post, comment section waiting until he provides his answers about Zionism Terrorism and how it's deeply related to the current Palestinian resistance. Please inform him.
Thanks,
Mohamed
Mohamed, I do monitor and enjoy the comments on your blog, but I refuse to engage in more discussions here, and this is why:
***
>
I do not wish to be interrupted or ridiculed *** when I'm in a serious discussion with sensible people;
***
> >
My answer to 'Zionist Terrorism' is
available to you on Nonie Darwish's
"Now They Call Me Infidel". It's my honest answer, and you may not like any of it, and that of course, IS your privilege to disagree.
Your friend, reb
Mohamed,
"Anyway, when he decided to answer my questions about Zionism terrorism and how it's deeply related to the current Palestinian resistance, then it'll be my pleasure to hear his words. You can inform him, if he didn't read these words by himself, that I'll watch the Nonie's post, comment section waiting until he provides his answers about Zionism Terrorism and how it's deeply related to the current Palestinian resistance. Please inform him."
Zionism is rampant, and as you probably already know, sponsored morally, financially and militarily by our "great" US of A. There may be hope on the horizon: Obama is the hope. You guys also have resonable support from the EU, but it stops short of giving Palestinians the F16s and tanks they need to repel the Israeli fascist imperialist aggression, invasion, and genocide against Palestinians.
Well, let me clarify something for the visitors of this blog.
That's true I'm not moderating comments because I'm a believer in the real freedom of speech, but this don't mean any way that I'll allow my blog to be a space to exchange personal insults (whether using bad words or not).
Comments related to the posts are always welcomed.
+++++++++++
Mr. reb,
I'll check you answer.
+++++++++++
SS,
I wish other Americans realize what you already know!
I wonder how your Media convince you that killing 500 children was just "self-defense", and killing 12 persons from the other side was "terrorism"?!!!!!!!
It's not just "brain-wash", it's "brain-deletion".
Mohamed,
"I wish other Americans realize what you already know!"
Many do. Unfortunately, there are too many brain-dead Americans. With some luck, Obama will make a difference.
"I wonder how your Media convince you that killing 500 children was just "self-defense", "
Because there are many brain-dead Americans ***. It is a vicious circle which perpetuates the illusion we know better, we do better, and we have the right to invade other countries and tell them what to do and how. Mass media here is simply f****** - sorry for the "bad" word, but it is listed in the American Webster dictionay, it is legal, and it is the exact work to describe the situation.
There are some good sources of information available, but most of my country fellows don't have the brain to look them up, they'd rather watch Faux News and Ann Coulter and become even more brain-dead than they were before.
Mohamed,
The world is a complex place, full of newsworthy daily events, gossip & rumors, and Shameless Propaganda.
If We Ignore Facts, if we are prone to see only one side of an issue, it would be helpful to be a bit more cautious in what we believe, and what we tend to print for public consumption, lest we lose all credibility.
Your "Understanding Islam" website is motivated to put Muslims in the best possible light, inform the naive public, and minimize or hide faults & weaknesses whenever possible. That's understandable.
When you permit people with other motivations to corrupt your best intentions with vile ridicule & "reviles", or a dirty nickname, or distort factual data and statements, and concentrate words that are designed to deceive you with "gratuituous platitudes", and pretended sympathy for your views,
he has only succeeded in destroying your original intention!
That Fellow 'Stirring Mud' is hardly an asset to your best efforts.
- Albert -
Mohamed,
I'm late to responding to your response because I followed for a couple of days and saw no response and just left for awhile.
I'm not talking about Armageddon, although that will come too. The war I speak of will come before Armageddon and will probably be nuclear.
Already we see Iran getting ready to nuke Israel, but this will be their downfall.
Russia, Ethiopia, Lybia, Syria and others will join in this war against Israel and will be defeated. The bible says it will take the Jews 7 months to clean up all the carcasses of the dead.
Sometime shortly after that will be the battle of Armageddon and it will most probably be led by China.
The Hebrew language is still spoken after 2000 years of the nation being separated. Yes, some of the Jews loved Babylon so much they stayed there, but no matter where they were or who they married they were still Jews. They are returning to their ancestral homeland to escape the horrendous conditions of where they are now and how Jews are treated there.
I'm sorry to see Palestinian children die unnecessarily, but they are used as pawns by the Palestinian authorities. At least the small children will go to heaven as they are not responsible for their original sin.
Otherwise we see three year old Palestinian children saying they hate Jews and want to kill them. They don't even know what they are saying.
It sounds mean and I don't mean it to be but nits make lice. Train a child to be a louse and he will become one. Unfortunately, many children in the Palestinian territories have become nits from their parents who hate for the sake of hating.
Madam Jeanette,
I'm sorry for being late for replying your comment, but it's exams season ;) and I'm busy studying. About your lateness to response, there is no problem, it's my fault, I'd notify you when I replied, but unfortunately your profile is locked, I can't reach you through your blog or email.
It's my first time to know about a war that will happen before Armageddon, I may search for more information about that.
You said that Armageddon will be led by China! We have something similar to that in Islamic scripts. Prophet Muhammad described the people who will fight in this battle, tight eyes, come from the east, etc.
I understand that Jews want to "return" to where their ancestors thousands of years ago existed. But the way of this return shouldn't be that way. Things changed over these thousands of years. Another people came and settled on these lands. Come and live "beside" them, not "instead of" them. The problem is that they want it only for them, a state for Jews and only for Jews, they ignored the people who is already existing on it, a people who don't care what people existed thousands of years ago on the same land. Palestinians lived on that land, they owned their homes, planted their lands, grew up their children. How would they accept the Millions of persons who come from every spot of the world, aiming at establishing their state!!
What is happening now in Palestine is very normal. The Palestinian reaction was very expected.
On the other hand, it's understood that Jews suffered in the countries where they were, they suffered in Europe so much. But is it a reason to accept the sufferance they cause to Palestinians? By the name of their return to this land, they made Millions of Palestinians to be refugees whether on their lands or in other states, even in America. By the name of living in peace as one people they were involved in 6 wars in 60 years. By the name of building their own homes, they bulldozed (and still) thousands of Palestinian homes and made tens of Palestinian villages vanish for their settlements. By the name of settling their own problem, they caused tens of problems to another people. By the name of keeping their people safe, they bombed tens of Arab markets, trains, hotels.(Read about the history of Zionism terrorism since 1930. Irgun, Lehi, Haganah are keys for your search). By the name of keeping their children safe, they killed hundreds of Palestinian children and terrorized the rest of them. There is no logic about that.
That's true that God promised them this land. But, you're a religious woman, you know that when God make a gift, it's only for the good ones, evil ones got no thing. So, I'm asking you; when we know all what Jews did to Palestinian people; the killing of children (even before Hamas), the bulldozing of Palestinian homes (read history & watch the news now about what happens in Jerusalem), the bombing of markets, buses, trains, hotels, etc (read about Lehi, Irgun, Haganah), the huge numbers of civil victims in every and all of is wars, and many other things that raise one question. Are Jews of Israel a good people that deserve the blessing and promise of God?
You know I would wonder and be amazed if a Palestinian child didn't express how he\she hates Israelis. They don't need to be told to hate them. They can see their father and mother killed in front of their eyes, they lost all the family, they are kept alone in this life, please take a look on this photo
http://www.alraynews.com/images/news/200901/1563681364882125557.jpg
It's Dalal, who lost all her family, her father, two brothers and sister in Gaza\Palestine. All what is left for her is her cat. She questions; "What did I do to Jews to kill my family?" Do you think this little Palestinian girl and thousands like her need to be told to hate Israelis?
Did you see this image before?
http://www.ettehad.info/bb/images/1.jpg
Do you think that this Israeli girl in the image is taught to love Palestinians?
You answer..
Respectfully,
Mohamed
Mahomed,
Due to the fact that it is the anniversary of the Gaza conflict, it was very interesting to review this discussion from more than half a year ago.
It could (and should) be published in a book! The main topic was Gaza, but the second topic that came up, Comment Moderation and Censorship was equally revealing and fascinating.
I love S***Stirrer, he comes in like a knight in shining armor when needed by Valérie.
I gave up visiting SNAKEHUNTERS a few months back as Reb said many times I was unwelcome because of my 'potty mouth' (???)
Now in desperation because no one visits his censored blog (I presume, I don't go there to check, life is too short), now he shows up on Blog of Blogs and says I am welcome on his blog (if I don't use 'potty' language).
But I know once I write something he disagrees with he will censor me and slander me by saying my comment was filthy, sleezy, potty language. But will show no one the comment to prove it (because it was not).
But I am glad he is there because your Fugitive from Justice post is important and needs to be discussed.
The fact that the discussion has moved to Blog of Blogs shows the value of a totally uncensored comments section and having several contributors to a blog. It keeps the blog balanced and interesting and trustworthy.
I am pleased that you are a contributor to Blog of Blogs and delighted that this intelligent and serious discussion of the Gaza massacre is continuing there.
Zionism must be exposed for what it is.
Rory
Post a Comment