Feb 6, 2008

Reaction vs Action


Why Palestinians attack Israelis?!!
 
Did you ask yourself this question before?!!
 
Were you amazed to see Palestinians fighting against Israelis?!!
 
You searched alot about the answer but in vain?!!
 
This question is really important and basic in the way of solving Palestinian-Zionistic issue. We may make some possibilities for the reason why they attack:
 
a) Israeli people was safe and stable on his own land doing no thing against other neighbour peoples, and suddenly Palestinians started attacking innocents Israelis on their lands.
 
mmmmmm. I don't thin so. First; there weren't a thing called 'Israel state' 60 years ago with specified borders (and until now). Second; there weren't a thing called 'Israeli people'. Third; current Israeli state is originally formed through Jewish immigrants who came from all over the world to this land where there were a people called Palestinians.
 
b) Israeli people declared a state on the lands where Palestinian people resided for long years AFTER negotiating with Palestinians about what will be for Palestinians and what will be for Zionists.
 
mmmm. No, history don't tell us that.
 
c) Israeli people declared a state on the lands where Palestinian people resided for long years WITHOUT negotiating with Palestinians about what will be for Palestinians and what will be for Zionists.
 
Let us check what history tells us..
 
Zionism has been established in 1897, it decided to establish a Jewish state on Palestinian lands regardless of the people already living on it, immigration of Jews from every part of the world started into Palestine, Jewish settlements started to be built, Balfour Declaration has been made in 1917 expressing sympathy towards the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people, Arabs refused that declaration, Immigrant Jews started terrorizing Palestinian Arabs to force them to sell or leave their lands, in 1922 Palestine has been put under British trusteeship, conflict started to be obvious and killings from Arabs and immigrant Jews started, in 1945 the issue has been transferred to the UN, General Assembly declared 181 resolution with a partition plan in 29 November 1947 between Arabs and Immigrant Jews to establish two independent states and Jerusalem as an international area, the resolution gave the Arab which were representing 67% of the population 45% of the land and to immigrant Jews which were representing 33% of the population 55% of the land when they owned only 7% of the land, majority of Jews accepted the resolution with a minority which refused and Arabs except a minority refused the resolution, however Arabian refusal immigrant Jews declared their Jewish state in 14 May 1948 as 'Israel', a war broke out between Arabs and Jews, Arabs lost 1948 war, however losing the war and not achieving its aim i.e. preventing the declaration of Jewish state on Arabian lands Arabs kept against it, Palestinians kept fighting against Israeli state declared on their lands.
 
After this quick briefed review of the history of declaring Israeli state on Arabian lands, we must focus on specific important points.
  1. Zionism did NOT consider the people already living on the land which they aim to establish their Jewish state on.
  2. Zionism and Zionists NOT Jews are the origin of Israeli state.
  3. Balfour declaration did NOT refer to a Jewish 'state', but to a Jewish 'homeland'.
  4. Balfour declaration stipulated that ".. nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine .."
  5. Arabs refused Balfour declaration and 181 UN resolution
  6. UN resolution was unfair by giving 45% of the land to 67% of Arabian population, which resided on it for long years and 55% of the land to 33% of Zionistic population, which are new immigrants to this land.
  7. UN General Assembly resolutions aren't obligatory for states members in UN. 181 resolution including the partition plan violates; article 1.1 of UN charter and article 2.4.
  8. Arabs and Palestinians started fighting against the new Zionistic state after its declaration -and even before- and never quit fighting.
About point 7 and 8 we have to stop for minutes.
 
It's approved according to United Nations General Assembly system that its resolutions are NOT obligatory upon members of UN whether they accepted or refused them but only are recommendations. If we added that Arabian countries -which are the other party in the conflict- did NOT accept the partition plan in 181 resolution. In addition partition plan stated in 181 UNGA resolution violates article 1.1 of UN charter which gives every people the right of 'self-determination' by declaring a state on the lands of Palestinians against their will, article 2.4 which prevents the threat of using force against territorial integrity. => We can conclude from that that the declaration of Israeli state is against international law.
 
We reviewed the history and knew what happened. We knew that Arabs were on Palestinian lands. We knew that its Zionists who came to these lands aiming at declaring their Jewish state. We knew that Zionists NEVER negotiated, argued about perspectives or set on one table with Arabs and the Palestinian people which was residing on this land about their new state which they aim at establishing on Palestinian lands. We knew that Arabs refused the declaration of a non-Arab state on their lands against the will of the people residing on it.
We knew that the new comers (Jewish immigrants) committed bloody crimes against the Palestinian people such as; bombing a coffee shop in Jerusalem in 29 December 1947 causing the killing of 13 persons,  bombing Semiramis hotel in 15 January 1948 causing the killing of 18 Arabs,  bombing a store in Haifa in 16 January 1948 causing the killing of 31 of Arabian men, women and children,  bombing a car near Peace building in 20 February 1948 killing 14 Arabs,  bombing Haifa train in 13 March 1948 killing 40 Arabs,  killing 60 of workers, children, women and elderly in Baldat Al-Shaikh in 31 January 1947,  killing 50 persons in Abu Shusha in 14 May 1948,  Deir Yassin massacre in 9 April 1948 against Deir Yassin village kids and old causing the killing of 360 unarmed persons,  attacking Qebya village west of Ramallah in 14 October 1953 killing 67 of villagers, women and children,  Shugaeyya massacre in Gaza 28 February 1955 causing the killing of 39 citizens,  killing 48 of villagers and children in Kafr Qassim in 29 October 1956,  Aqsa mosque massacre causing the killing of 21 and injuries of 150 of prayers in 8 October 1990,  Khaleel massacre in 25 February 1994 leading to the killing of 51 and injuries of 350 of prayers.  We knew that Palestinians kept resisting against the new state declared on their Palestinian lands since its declaration in 1948 until this moment.
 
There were more than 1250 of innocents, kids, old men and women which have been killed ONLY IN THE YEAR of establishing this state
 
After that bloody history. After knowing about the history of oppression against Palestinians, after knowing about massacres have been committed against unarmed Palestinians. Will we ask why Palestinians attack?!! Will we wonder that they fight against Israelis?!! Will we be amazed to see Palestinians bringing their children not to surrender to the occupiers?!!
 
Dear ladies and gentlemen, Palestinians are NOT the aggressors. Palestinians are NOT who started by the attack. Palestinians are just defending themselves against Israeli occupation and assaulting on their right to live safe. Palestinians aren't the ones who make the action, Palestinians are in the position of the re-action.
 
My dear guests, Palestinians resistance against Israeli entity is NOT unjustified, but in contrary it 100% justified. It's exactly what article 51 of UN charter described; "Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, .."

42 comments:

Barb said...

what do you say about the charge here that Palestinians had never been self-governing, never really were a "nation?"

They certainly can't agree on a gov't now.

So tell me why is civil war so much a feature of most every Islamic nation?

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Barb,

Correct! Today's Palestine has no
"Government", never will have a
Governance. Hamas & Fatah murder each other for Control. These poor souls are born into a Kill-culture.
They have no real perspective of
Freedom of Religion! It's Sad.

Mohamed Uses Palestine as his major
"Talking Point", and this struggle
has no Political Solution.

The "Dirty Zionists" kill innocent
babies & children & women. The Suicidal Mentality Is A Continuum.
I See No Change On The Horizon. reb

steve said...

Back in the day of Moses when God promised the Isrealites the Land of Canaan(modern day palistine), the Jews went ahead and moved right in. The local inhabitants like the Philistines (forefathers of the palistinians) didn't like it back then either. Zionists (Isrealites) and Palistinians (Philistines) will be fighting over that tract of land till the end of time. So nothing the Isrealis, or the Palistinians do to one another surprises me.

mud_rake said...

Tell me, barb, why is war so much a part of American culture?

Mohamed said...

barb,

That fact has no thing to do with my issue here.

'State' and 'Government' are about policy. But men's lives are about human rights.

So, I assume that when some body comes to a plot where you reside, and started killing your family, Will you say; "Oh, I can't stop him from killing my family => because <= I don't have a property document for this plot" (!!!) That's exactly your logic of not having a government.

About the nation let me tell you -as a law student- that the term 'nation' refers to the group of people which have common history, struggels, language, etc.
So it's a national term more than political. Are Palestinians a nation?!! The answer is Yes.


Mr.reb,

Welcome back to my blog.

What did you mean by 'kill-culture'?!!

I support you that Zionists kill innocents and kids (more than 1250 have been killed only in the year of establishing their state, bombs, guns, etc) but you don't have to describe them as 'dirty'.


Steve,

Weclome to you on my blog.

I wonder if God promised them of that land. Do Him allow them to kill innocents and terrorize kids before killing them?!!

And you have to know that they came as 'Zionists' not as 'Jews'.


Thanks for all my guests. But I'd like to ask you; what are their comments about the crimes committed by Zionists I mentioned in the post since 1947, and what is the reason behind them as you think (they have been committed against unarmed civilians and kids) and if you think that these crimes are enough to give Palestinians the right of self-defence?!!

And I'd like that all my guests notice that killing of civilians, women and kids started since 1947 and even before, so I ask them; What this fact means to you?!!

Mohamed

The Loop Garoo Kid said...

Dear Mohamed,

Better but not good. You may not revise history to your liking.

As one of my mentors once advised: "A monkey in silk is still a monkey."

Here is the issue reduced to its essence. Hamas wants to destroy the state of Israel. Do you think they will succeed? Hamas is perfectly willing to let the Palestinians in Gaza live in poverty and misery.

Remeber, as pointed out above, the Palestinians have never been self governing. A brief look at the efforts of Fatah and Hamas in 1948 may give some clues as to why.

Regards.

Barb said...

When two children fight -we try too figure out who did what to whom and why and get to the bottom of the conflict and enact justice --BUT it's usually not so simple --we find that both sides crossed the lines of proper behavior --so we teach them to apologize and forgive and determine to do better.

Neither side in this case wants to apologize for anything --so they need to start with the forgivness and determine to do better. They need to look for solutions that are "win-win" --whereby the grievances of the past are let go--and they choose to build two nations side by side with friendly tolerant relations. NOthing else will satisfy either side's claims to the area.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Barb,

There Are Two Competing Gods; Yours
and Mohamed's Allah. Sometimes, I believe they might be Twin Brothers
looking down at their Creation, and wondering where they failed.
>>>
When the old orthodox Jew at the Wailing Wall was questioned about
his prayer, he responded:

"Sometimes, I'm thinking,

>
>
>
>
...that I'm talking to a Wall !"

reb
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

microdot said...

Really great blog!
You provide an eloquent voice that's missing in the rhetoric thrown around by most Americans.
I will spend some time reading your stuff!

Anonymous said...

Hello Mohamed, from SnakeHunter:

On Feb 7th, you asked, What is a
Kill-Culture. I'm surprised you
don't understand. Here is just
one example:

a) al Queda in Iraq. They like to
kill American troops and Shia (they
are Sunni).

b) Then these crazy people start,
with their Death Squads, to kill
SUNNI AND SHIITE! KILL, KILL, Kill.

c) Nervous Tribal headers finally
have meetings, many meetings.

d) Finally, the people begin to
report these Killers to U.S. troops, and where they can find Bombs, RPG's, Mortar Shells! Then
they tell when to find Zarcawi.
He is Dead. The local people at
last realize the U.S. Wants To Stop
The Killing!

e) Finally, they realize, we don't
want their land. We would like to
go home...but not before Maliki can
Defend Iraq from crazy al Queda.

Do You Understand? I am sorry, if
this is too complex for a young man
with a sincere desire to understand
about the KILL-CULTURE. It is very
complicated, but Sunni Iraqi are
beginning to UNDERSTAND. We don't
wish to Steal Their Land or Oil.

We would be happy to Buy the Oil.
It's Cheaper to Buy Oil; War is too
expensive, and costs much Pain and
Death. Now, do you understand?

Your friend, reb (Please Answer)__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Mohamed said...

Madam Barb,

Glad that you see that 'both sides crossed the lines of proper behavior'. It's a forward step in our discussion.

But I'd like that you provide your perspective of what mistakes (crossing the lines) have been committed by both sides; Palestinians and Israelis.

I'll appreciate your efforts if you provided yours since 1947, or before this history if you'd like. I don't need detailed perspective, a briefed one would be better.

Thanks alot in advance for your cooperation.


Mr.reb,

That's my pleasure to answer. Soon I'll do it.

Mohamed said...

microdot,

I'm so happy of your visit to my blog.

You're the second one who supports this blog principles. The first was a French too ;)

Weclome to you every time,

Regards,

Mohamed

Barb said...

Mohammad --you have to start with the here and now. And you have to consider that Israel was a JEwish nation in 70 AD when Rome destroyed the new temple. They too are historic people of the region--and you don't want them to have any part of it. What's to be done? Build two friendly nations side by side --and drop the past.

How do you think Britain and U.S. are friendly today despite their war in 1776? And American Indians are still here and living peacefully though annoyed by their history --and slave descendents are now helping to run our gov't --and the north and the south Americans had a painful civil war but are now united under one gov't. Many of us have slave or Am. Indian heritage in our family lines, and people from the north and the south who fought in the mid 1800's -- but we have sought a peaceful strong nation to embrace all who are here --for the sake of the children and mutual peace and prosperity.

Palestinians need to lay aside the suicide belts they would put upon their children and seek help to build their nation instead. They need to take the land they have, negotiate for as much as they can get, and make it great! But no --they want to fight a futile war to regain all of Israel --which will lead to WWIII and the Battle of Armageddon.

You point out all the atrocities of 1948. Were those unprovoked? Or just more of today's same ol- same ol --"eye for an eye" and "tooth for a tooth" --never- ending hostility. Israel did these things and Palestine was sitting there with halos over their heads,exuding peace and love toward the Jews? I doubt it. It was no different then, than now --atrocities on both sides with ARabs attacking because they felt justified in doing so because the dispersal of the land was unfair to them, --and Iraelis fighting back as the Arabs attacked.

Peace has to begin with the people where they are living today --and the only solution is two nations with friendly borders. Both sides have to see that it is best for them.

The American Indians feel robbed by the European immigrants --and Afr. Americans believe they were robbed by the same people who brought them here --but both groups are benefitting by the strong nation that evolved here. Jews and Muslims live here in peace --for now. We all have past issues with somebody --but as long as you live in the past, instead of building nations for the future children, you will never be satisfied. And the region will never know peace as long as justice is sought for decisions made by adults in 1948 and before, people no longer living. Today's Jews and UN people would say "The decisions of 1948 were not our doing. We are here now; let's build for the future."

The ARminians of Turkey also want world recognition for the Muslim genocide of them, as Christians? Will that recognition be given?

microdot said...

To talk about this conflict as if it were a fight between children and the American Christian view is the wise and just parent is so off the mark as to be not worth commentiing on.

Steve in his comment shows the major stumbling block. He defines it as a predestined programmed conflict with no finalization because it is based on the bible these people believe in.

I'm not sure if Steve actually believes this is or is injecting it just to make this point.

I believe that in regards to Palestine, Israel has always had the power to end this cycle of violence, if they were capable of taking the initiative.
But they don't seem to be. I don't think that any of the Americans commenting on this blog have any idea of what it is truly like to be a Palestinian.
Total Repression creates total hopelessness. Total hopelessness creates terrorism as the only response that seems to be
available.

Israel could still break this cycle but they are locked inot a pattern which is as fatal to them as the Palestinians they are trying to subdue.

Barb said...

Microd, I didn't hear Mohammad talk about total repression today -though it is an Israeli retaliation tactic in their own defense.

Instead, I heard him talk about his view that it's just not fair that Israel is there at all as a nation --and that Israelis have done hostile acts toward the Palestinians. Both sides claim to be retaliating for atrocities from the other side.

Just like two kids do and a parent cannot restore complete fairness. (I am not talking about USA as a parent --perhaps UN) Let's say brother breaks sister's dolly accidentally --she's mad--but what can be done about it if you can't afford a replacement? Do we really want him to sell his bike (bought with our money for him) to replace her doll? parents have these kinds of squabbles and decisions all the time (I know, Microdot. I don't think you do) --You can't always have complete justice and equality--sometimes you have to go with love, sharing, forgiveness, mercy, etc. or you just perpetuate the resentments on both sides. Sometimes you have to forgive the past and move on with your lives. That's where these two nations are.

But yes, the ethnic rivalries go all the way back to when the Jews left Egypt for the Promised Land and fought their way there. They actually go back farther to the rivalry between the children of Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael and their mothers. The more recent historic battles were between the Muslims under Mohammad and the Jews.

So it's more about children's squabbles than you think.

Valérie said...

Hahaha, this is so funny that I end up here and see Microdot and Barb, LOLLLL!

Mohamed, I am sorry for the introduction, I only happened to cruise blogs like I do sometimes, and I ended here.

But it is strange because I know this guy Romeo who is arab muslim american and he was for months on a blog I see every day, and everybody liked him pretty much and he was courting me a little bit, I think (I am not sure if he was serious because he was joking all the time).

And Barb who I see here is now not visitor of PP anymore because she pissed off everybody always saying how muslins are bad and her brand of christians are so good.

But it all doesn't matter except that Romeo left because of Barb and I liked him very much, but now he is still not back. And that is a pity because I really liked him even if sometimes he was making fun of me - but I think it was all because he tried to be funny and the jokes there on PP are not always in very good taste, LOL.

But he seems very different of you: he hardly ever talked about his religion - not that any muslim would want to because Barb would then write entire chapters of the bible to explain that muslim religion is so horrible, LOL.

Anyway, I am sorry for making an interruption in your discussion, I am trying to find Romeo, and maybe I will find him somewhere on a muslim blog. If you hear of him, tell him I miss him and that Barb is out now so he can joke about jumping in the pond with me again.

I don't want to give an email address in public, but you can leave a post to me here on that blog: http://ppblog.free.fr/

By the way I am catholic, but I don't have anything against muslims. I do not care what people prefer their religion to be, it is for them and themselves to deal with.

Au revoir from Paris! I know 2 Egyptian students here but I don't think they have a religious preference, I'm not sure, they never talk about it. One day I must go and see the pyramids!

Barb said...

I have been "insulted and reviled" here, Mohammad, by Valerie! : (

Valerie, it is funny to me, too, that Microdot and Mudrake have both followed me over here. It's like moths to a flame, I tell you --they can't help themselves!

Mohammad and I keep in touch and he is on my blogroll. So I think I was here first --but they will say that I followed them. Just like you distorted the truth to say I was not nice to Romeo --or disapproved his humor. I encouraged your cyber romance, remember? --the first to elaborate on it, as I recall. Romeo once called me "resiliant and worth arguing with" -- and noted I had a sense of humor.

I never said "Muslims are bad." His religion was hardly ever the blog topic over there. I let Romeo know many times that I liked his blog personna.

He only regretted coming out as Muslim when he started to defend Palestine and some (not just me) said they did not agree with his view --which is exactly like yours --all sympathy for Palestine and none for Israel.

I like Romeo very much and trust he will come back to you. No one was mean to him about his faith. It's interesting how intolerant people are to disagreement --and how you all distort the facts when trying to tell about my blogging! I hear that I posted the Bible every hour on the hour and stayed at the computer round the clock and now you say I was "always" bad-mouthing Muslims. Now you know that's not true, so why say it???

Barb said...

error above

He [romeo] only regretted coming out as Muslim when he started to defend Palestine and some (not just me) said they did not agree with his view --which is exactly like Mohammad's view (not yours Valerie) --I meant to say ....

Barb said...

I just saw an article tonight, Mohammad, about bombing between Gaza and Israel. Israel has cut back on electricity there --why? because of the rockets that keep being launched into Israel. Israel is the retaliator. I believe they will quit ALL reprisals against Palestine as soon as Palestinians stop bombing --but if Israel quits, it makes no difference. Palestinians WILL NOT QUIT UNLESS FORCED! There is no path to peace with them except on their terms --NO Israel in the area.

Anonymous said...

Man's Kill-Culture ----

http://www.picturehistory.com/images/products/0/1/4/prod_1449.jpg

I tried to copy this photo from the above link onto this comment, but I was not successful. Maybe someone more computer literate can tell me how. Anyway, it is a photo of Chief Joseph, a great chief of the American Plains Indians, in December 1890, starved to death and frozen in a grotesque position in the snow, US Army soldiers in the background standing near their horses. He had been photographed many times in his prime in full Plains Indian regalia draped with beautiful blankets, in full feathered war bonnets. Now he lay in the snow in rags, disgraced, disrespected, his little rag-tag followers also dead, mostly women.

Whenever I look at this photo I feel a great sense of injustice, because I descend from Native Americans, and I can understand how Arabs would feel that their fellow Arab Palestinians had suffered an injustice. It is a sense of loss that is hard to accept, but accept it they must since they cannot change history no matter how they try to "review" it to come up with their own versions of the "resolutions" and agreements to make their case. The Jews feel a sense of injustice whenever they see photos of the piles of skeletal Jewish dead in the yards of Hitler's crematoriums. I can understand how the powers that be felt that sense of injustice with them and helped them gain a homeland.

Who do I blame for the injustice suffered by Chief Joseph and his people? The US Army and its "kill-culture" against Native Americans? No. The Americans fought the battles and won the war, and felt justified in making the land free and safe for themselves. After all, hadn't they purchased the land from Napoleon? But Napoleon never had title to the land either. So land belongs only to the victors for a time, and is lost again one way or another to a more powerful, more determined, better armed invader, time and time again throughout history all over the world. The losers wisely accept defeat and live on.

There have been bloody battles everywhere that man has settled. Those who defend Palestinians forget that before a Jewish homeland was declared, the Palestinian Arab tribes fought many bloody battles amongst themselves. That is an inconvenient truth the defenders of Palestinians choose to ignore.

I don't believe in Jesus as God, but He was wise to tell His followers to put away their swords; the Romans were too powerful and it would not serve their purpose to keep on fighting. His aim was for his people to keep the integrity of their ancestors' beliefs and not fall in with the Romans as the Pharisees did. He spoke not too far from where the current skirmishes between Palestinians and Israelis are going on now.

The Palestinians would do well to put down their weapons and make peace. They revere Jesus as a prophet, same as the Jews do. They both revere the old Scriptures no matter what they call them or who they claim had them first. Jesus lived as a Jew who actually walked that land, He was not a Muslim, and Mohammed only went there in his dreams while still in Medina or Mecca, and so the land is holy to the three major religions and it should be made safe for anyone in the world to come there.

Surely life is easier now for everyone in America more than 100 years after Chief Joseph's demise since there has been peace for that long, but at the loss of the original culture that was there. The defeated that wished to keep their culture gave up everything and stayed together in reservations set aside for them so they could be protected from their enemies and keep their language and some customs and part of their religion, though they were pressured to take Jesus as their Savior in order to show gratitude to their "benefactors". Most have assimilated and share in the bounty that we know now, and we are free to practice whatever religion or to not practice any.

The point I'm trying to make is that the Palestinians were no more a nation than the followers of those Native American chiefs so long ago. The American tribes had their kill-culture too, and took land from each other. The Palestinians are Arab tribes, with opposing Islamic creeds, not sovereign nation states. The American Indians warred amongst the other tribes and never joined forces to beat back the enemy, and doing so would not have accomplished much owing to the fact that the invaders had the latest technology and financial support as Isreal does now.

However the Palestinians lost the land they thought was theirs is a moot point now. They are facing too determined a people who feel as much a historical claim to the land, and much of the Western world agrees, though Israel has been cautioned to stay within the first agreed upon borders. It is a historical fact that most Jews were taken out of the land they have reclaimed, and in truth share common ancestors with the Arabs. Mohamed makes much of "Zionists" and Jews, but Zionism was a movement in the late 19th Century to establish a homeland for Jews. Of course the Palestinians don't want any new borders, but the Israelis have not only taken an inch, they have taken a mile, many miles, and they will not give them up due to the incitement from their radical Zionist element. They have not only won the battles, they won the war, and most of the world recognizes their hard-won state.

Who amongst the Arab states has made a determined effort lately to oust the Israelis? The Palestinians once had the support of their Arab neighbors, but that is lacking now. Their neighbors fought with them at first, but they lost too. It would be best to stop these ineffective suicide bombings and missile firings that cause the Israelis to retaliate. It is the Israelis who react, and it is the Palestinians that are the agressors. The Israelis also could make quite a case for themselves if they had someone like Mohamed to enumerate all the killings and injuries their innocents have suffered from the Palestinians. We here could make a case for Shiites who have suffered loss of life at the hands of Sunnis and vice-versa, but Muslims ignore that.

Arab Muslims have made the Palestinian situation such a bone of contention, that they are obsessed by it to the extent that they are willing to re-invent history and provide weak arguments as justification. Palestinians have not been alone as residents of that land all those generations that they claim; there were Jews and Christians in that land, and there still are.

So, yes, I wonder why Palestinians continue to agitate only because I see that it has been futile to do so for so long. That land is so small compared to other vast nation states like the United States, so people have nowhere to run. There could be peace there if only the Palestinians would stop their attempts to oust the Jews by suicide bombings and missiles that kill and injure innocent Jews and cause the Israeli army to try to disarm them causing death and injury to the Palestinians in turn.

I think that the leaders of other Arab states have tried to broker a peace, but the Palestinians refuse. Only Arab leaders can try to control the Palestinians, since they choose to ignore the UN, and only Israelis can control their own radicals. The rest of the world just seems to want to stay out of their affairs.

I printed out Mohamed's essay, all five pages of it, and I am sorry to say that his arguments do not convince me that it is a good idea for the Palestinians to continue their skirmishes. I feel he is just reiterating what he hears from his elders who have picked up the situation in Palestine as an Islamic cause. As a devout Muslim, he will not contradict what his elders teach him. In his culture it would be unthinkable to have an indipendent thought that goes against the beliefs of the culture.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

Barb said...

This was a good post, Emilie, that I agree with --except that I am one who DOES believe in the Divinity of Christ.

You said of American Indians/natives:
"though they were pressured to take Jesus as their Savior in order to show gratitude to their "benefactors"

Gratitude is never the motivation encouraged by good missionaries as a basis for conversions to Christianity. They would want people to believe because they consider the Gospel Of Christ to be essential truth and Good News for all people. Inherent in that belief is the view that Jesus is the only way to Heaven--as Jesus said He was the only way to the Father God --and that whoever believes in Him will not die but have everlasting life (after death.) He proved His claims by resurrecting others and Himself, which stories are recorded in the 4 Gospels, matthew, mark, Luke and John --all include eye witness accounts by many and are written by different authors --like any other real historical event.

Devout and sincere missionaries teach the Gospel (Good News) of Christ out of love for Him and love for the peoples of the world --whom He died to save from both sin and death. Jesus in the heart brings joy to the soul and no desire to commit suicide in order to murder others.

Christians believe the Bible is from God, inspired not by an angel, like the Koran, but by the Holy Spirit inspiring men. We believe the Book accurately defines good and evil, righteousness and sin. We believe the Book and Christ are gifts to the whole world. The Bible is a "light unto our paths." and that Jesus is "the light of the world."

Jesus warned of false prophets and said Satan would appear as "an angel of light" to deceive many.

Jesus did wisely say "forgive" --His kingdom is not of this world --but an eternal kingdom --that will be upon the earth after Christ returns --and is on the earth now as a spiritual kingdom of believers.

Your history of wars and battles on the earth as a means of determining borders throughout world history is accurate --a sad commentary --but we must move forward and not continue warring to "take over" other countries and their resources. E.G., America's motivation in Iraq is not for America to steal their oil or to establish Iraq as an American nation.

Barb said...

Mohamed and Emilie --I so admired Emilie's post that I took it to my blog. I hope that's OK. I don't think there are copyright rules per se, here, right?

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed,

You wanted TRAFFIC here on your blog, and you really have it now!

Mostly long, boring, convoluted, fuzzy thinking. Your One Issue,
Palestine! Well, without an orderly
discussion a) b) c) d) e)...what's the result? Scrambled Eggs, and no butter!

Start over. You take command, Establish Rules, or the result will be...Total Confusion!

No one speaks about the 12th Imam, the Shia "Madhi" Prophet (That would be interesting). I never hear a single word about him. Why not?

Or the differences of Hamas/Fatah,
fighting & killing each other for control.

Hope to see you on 'History Post',
whenever you have the time. reb
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Barb said...

Well, I wasn't bored --and i don't think recent posts have been fuzzy thinking either, Reb.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

barb,

The marvelous thing about a free society is its diversity. Mohamed cannot possibly relate to it, in any real sense. He has only ONE Issue, Palestine. It dominates his Thinking, and that becomes rather tedious.

If Mohamed would like to view a good picture of American Diversity,
I would challenge him to read our
most recent post, dated February 10th,
written by an LDS (Mormon) nominee for President, named Mitt Romney. The title is 'Stepping Aside'. Maybe That would give Mohamed a different view of the U.S.A. That's my hope.

I'd be Honored with his Comment,
and Yours, barb. It's Open Forum
(Free Speech, you know). You can
throw Stones & "Reviles" all day long. (I'm Immune to Lame Insult).

We often collide on my History Post. Oh, I'm 83 on the 11th, so Be Gentle For One Day; I'd like that. Rodney Dangerfield and this
Critter-Getter Get No Respect. None! reb
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Barb said...

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, REB!

I thought you were already 83. Are you holding there? Did I read that you were a swim coach at what level? college? olympics?

This is a day to celebrate your life, so brag a little!

We'll give you respect --unless you call our posts "long and boring." I never!! : D

Anonymous said...

Barb,

Yes, I was privileged to coach(Volunteer) an Age/GroupComp/Swim Team in 29Palms,Calif/Park&Rec Desert Swim Conf/Small Town. Began with 8 & Under; Never Out-Pointed Once in Dual Meets/7 years.
Got Team AAU Cards! One 8 yr Old, JanGorman went on to a BigTeam, Ferg/Rittnour/StCharles, Mo. 1966 She broke 7 Nat.Records at 10, then
Nat.Finals/5 AAUGold Medals! My daughter held DSC 25ydButterfly in
19.0 sec/Then IspoiledItAll, became
HeadCoach! Then Yucca Valley, 2 yrs.

I Volunteer, Now/Vol. Blog Editor, For My Country! No Money Payment;
More rewarding! Do You Understand?
AllTheWorldBlessed,WithOurFreedoms!
>>
Mohamed: Did You Read "Stepping Aside" by Mitt Romney? One Great American! What Do You Think???
Your Answer, Important To Me. reb
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Christian Apologist said...

Greetings Muhammed, May Allah's peace and protection be upon you.

Both Palistinians and Isrealis are guilty of attrocities. Playing the blame game does no good and only serves to further inflame this emotional issue. Both sides need to step back and repent and forgive each other. Maybe if they could do this they may have peace and prosperity for themselves and their children.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Re-reading all comments, I enjoyed
Emilie from Port Orchard the most,
and Negative Mud-rake the least.

He delights in throwing mud at all
comments, on all blogs. Must be a very unhappy person. Hate everyone,
hope he can generate someone to hate him.

Now that would be a waste of energy!
>>
Mohamed,

Did you read the Mitt Romney item?
I hope you realize that I don't
ask Approval, just your viewpoint,
in S/H comment section. thanks;
your friend, reb
_________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Delight said...

To Mohamed about Christian belief:

Beliefs may not be facts –but they can be IN facts. I may BELIEVE something to be true –though I cannot prove it. And it, in fact, MAY ACTUALLY be true! That’s what Christians believe –even though they cannot prove their faith to others empirically. There is a lot of empirical evidence for the believer –that is truth verified by his own experience and experiment. But we can’t prove the resurrection of Christ simply by stating it as a fact –even though we believe it to be true. We can’t prove to you that Christ gives meaning and joy and purpose to our lives in such a way that we feel His very reality and presence through our faith–and through The Holy Spirit –God’s actual presence that comes to one when he converts and becomes a follower of Christ.

For Christians, the act of baptism, a ceremonial dip into water as in a pool or lake, is “an outward sign of an inward work of grace” — it’s a symbol of the new birth Jesus talked about when He said “You must be born again.” “born of the Spirit –not of flesh.” It’s a symbol of being cleansed from sin–having sins forgiven.

But the New Birth of a Christian actually occurs when we admit we are sinners who need God’s forgiveness and apologize to God for our sins–He forgives us freely because of Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross for our sins. The sins are paid for. Now we just need to accept the free gift of salvation by repenting and believing. Even though we may not be convinced. If we seek God, He promises we will find Him. For He created us to fellowship with Him. This is the most ennobling view of humans ever –that the Creator of the Universe made us to know Him and have peace and joy from Him.

There is a spiritual experience that transcends and includes the emotions when one seeks God and receives the Holy Spirit. You just can’t imagine. It’s worth seeking. It’s life-changing in the best possible way. It gives us a new nature –HIS divine nature –and this is what Christians attest to.

There are phony Christians--some who still sin and are not sorry for it, who are proud –who walk in the flesh and not in the Spirit. Brother Lawrence, a Catholic priest, said Christians need to “practice the presence of God.” That means to be mindful that He is with us.

Jesus warns Christians to be genuine and truly loving and not hateful or snobbish or proud of themselves. We don’t believe one loses salvation for lapsing –but the Christian who abides in the Spirit of God and reads and tries to live by the Word of God will not be an egregious hateful sinner against others.

Yes, people of other religions like Islam can be similarly well-intended, wanting to do good and be good. But some religions actually say to “kill the unbeliever” as Islam has such a verse. They also have a Koranic verse that says to befriend the unbeliever or the enemy and then stab him in the back when he least expects it. That’s a scary one –and I’m sure that Muslims enlightened by western values do not believe in doing this –at least, I hope not. However, the reason some Muslims and ex-Muslims say Islam must be transformed, is because they KNOW what the Koran says –and how various branches of Islam are determined to follow it to the letter –justifying their beheading of people who have done them no personal wrongs –and shouting praise to Allah as they do it. The God of Abraham –the God of Jesus Christ –says “love your enemy.” “Return good for evil.”

So there really is a big difference between Islam and Christianity and the books that inspire them. They are not essentially alike. One champions personal choice --especially a choice to believe and be righteous --and the other forbids independent thought and encourages trance-like states of rote recitation of the Koranic verses. We are to hide God's word in our hearts --that we might not sin against Him. But the result won't be a terrorist movement against unbelievers --or a vengeful movement against those of other faiths.

Mohamed said...

Mr.reb,

You see that what Qaeda is doing as 'kill-culture'.

So I'm asking you;

We know that immigrant Europeans (ancestors of Americans) to the new land annihilated a whole people, Millions and Millions have been killed savagely, I also hear recently about how they were using Indians as food for their dogs, and how they were roasting them alive. We also know that Americans fought bloody wars against themselves (North vs South), we know about how Americans kidnapped Millions of Africans by ships to the lands which they stole from the Indians to use them as slaves. We know that Americans are the first and the only ones in this world who used Atomic bombs against another people, we know how they are the first ones who accepted Israel as a legal state, we know that it's American government which sent missiles to Israel so as to use against Lebanese people, we know that it's Americans who use their Veto to prevent any condemn of Israeli terroristic attacks against unarmed Palestinian kids, we know that USA already has atomic bombs and may declare a war against Iran for the assumption to have Nuclear bomb in the future, and smoothly talk with Norther Korea which clearly says that it want to own nuclear bomb, and don't say one word about France, Israel, etc who already have nuclear bombs, .. etc.

Should we call all that as 'kill-culture'?!! Should we call that as 'discrimination-culture'?!! Should we call it as 'Occupation-culture, 'Bias-culture', 'Terrorizing-culture'?!!

We also hear about what Hitler (Nazis) committed against humanity. Should we call it as 'kill-culture'?!!

That's true that I completely refuse Qaeda attacks against civilains, but do I call it as 'kill-culture'?!! No.

I think that the concept 'culture' is a big thing (if the word 'big' was right). It don't refers to individual acts, but instead I would call crimes of Qaeda like 9-11 attacks and attacking civilians in Arabian and Islamic countries as misguiding and a misunderstanding, in addition I would call them as murderous and criminal. But 'culture', I don't think so.

I hope that difference of perspectives don't affect how you consider me as a friend.

-----------------------------------

Madam Barb,

Do you think that any body loves killing others and to be killed?!! Do you think that any human loves to live in permanent threat?!! Do you think that any body loves to lose his children, sisters, parents and wives?!!

The answer with no doubt is; NO and hundreds NO.

You may say but Hamas do.

I'll tell you then that it's the right of Palestinians to defend their land (or at least their lives if you don't believe they own that land). Can you imagine how this people suffered from Israel?!!
The persons who you care for, your parents, your brothers and sisters, your sons and daughters, your grandparents and your friends. Your home where you were born and lived all your life. Your job. Your farm and animals. Do you think that these things worth something for every human?!! They worthed alot for Palestinians, in fact they were their live, but Zionists took them, took them all, they turned Palestinian people into a homeless people, they killed and killed. The very normal reaction for that is resistence. I never blame Palestinians for fighting for their freedom and dignity.

You asked; You point out all the atrocities of 1948. Were those unprovoked?
Yes, they were unprovoked. Tell me one thing committed by Palestinians which justifies bombing stores, trains, hotels, buildings, cars, streets and killing villagers with their children!!
As for me; I see that Palestinains where in their land when Zionists provoked them by declaring their Jewish state on their lands, killed more than 1250 in one year of kids, women and civilians, displaced thousands from their homes, terrorized the safe people. As for me I think these things are enough provokation. Can you tell me one thing which provoked Zionists to do that?!!

That's Zionists who created the problem. Yes, they may have in their belief that they the choosen people and that God promised them of that land, but this isn't the way to take it. There were many other ways to get back there. But from all of them they choose to directly immigrate there, establish their state regardless of any other thing; regardless of the people already residing on that land and regardless of the very nornal reaction of this people towards establishing a state where they live. It was expected that they will refuse establishing a state on their lands, it was expected that they will fight against this new state until they prevent or remove it just like any other state. So why the amazement?!!

Ok, I know what you're saying now.. Let's start with the here and now
And that's true. What happened has happened. So let us look at the future. How the sloution will be. What is your perspective of the solution of this conflict?!!

Mohamed

Mohamed said...

Madam Emilie, my dear friend,

Thanks for your comment to this post.

At the first; I'll appreciate your answer to the following question; What are the results of not having a state for Palestinians before declaring Israel in your perspective?!! That's because I don't understand how it may affect Palestinian issue.

If that's true that there is NOT balance of powers bwteen Israel and Palestinians so why Israel care for them. Israel have nuclear bombs, Mircava's, modern airfighters, an army, guns and light weapons, rockets, etc. But Palestinian fighters only have few guns and rockets. So where is the problem?!! Do you think that Palestinian fighters by their abilities really constitute some threat against Israel?!! Do you think that Israel is afraid of few fighters with few guns and rockets and local-made bombs?!!
If Yes, so there is really balance of powers, and let them continue their war until the last one of Palestinian. It's about their freedom and dignity.
If No, so let Israel keep the children and innocents safe.

What Mohamed?!! I can't believe my eyes?!! Are you supporting killing, bombs and wars?!! You became a terrorist?!!!

No no, madam Emilie. Before thinking that way, I'd like that you think for a moment..
What are the borders of Israel?!!
mmmm No, Israel don't have that quality. Yes, your eyes saw it rightly; ISREAL HAS NO BORDERS. Just ask any body or any international law specialist and he'll give you the same answer. So how this would affect our point here?!!
In fact; that's the main reason for my belief that Palestinians should resist against Israel. Why?!!
When Israel has no 'borders' so it has no right to defend its 'borders'. Is that logical?!! You can NOT defend a thing which you don't have.

In fact; we can consider that 181 resolution as the legal frame which Israel took for establishing its state on Palestinian lands, this UN resolution set borders for the Jewish state and for the Palestinian people. Israel started by that and continued in expanding.
Again, what the resolution contained, establishing a Jewish state and a.. a .. what?!!! A Palestinain state?!!
So, there is a Palestinain state according to international law.
Mohamed, are you kidding?!!! Then if you are saying that there is a Palestinian state, so can you tell me what are its borders?!!
You really want to know its borders?!! Really you want that?!!
Then check 181 UN resolution back. Checked it?!! What did you found?!! Then you believe me that international law considers that there is a Palestinain state with specificed borders.

So what are the results of that?!! What will the fact that UN considers the existence of borders of a Palestinian state lead to?!!
This will lead to a very logical result.
Before knwoing this result let's us check some UN articles;
*"Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, .." Article 51
*"All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, .." Article 2


Now what is the result of these approved borders and these UN articles?!!
The very logical and necessary result of these borders admitted by UN 181 resolution is that it's the right of Palestinians to offer them lives for preventing any one from touching their state, to resist and fight against any who think about taking one cm of their state. It's the right of Palestinians to practice their right in SELF_DEFENCE
If we looked at what really happened we'll see that Israel did attacked borders of Palestinain borders admitted by UN, they expand exceeding and assaulting parts of the Palestinian state. So, Palestinian state and all its citizens are entitled by UN charter to protect their borders.

Israel did an illegal act by assaulting borders of a neighbour state which is Palestine, and the normal reaction for that from Palestinains is defending their borders, their homes and their lives. That's Israel who started by the action of attacking borders of Palestine approved by 181 UN resolution which have been accepted by its representatives, and it's the reaction of Palestinians to defend their land.

I'm intersted to know what is your perspective about that, Madam Emilie.

At the last I'd like to clarify a little thing. We Muslims believe that Prophet Muhammad really went to Jerusalem to Al-Aqsa mosque, from where he went up over the skies, he used Al-Buraq (a very fast animal) in this trip. The trip is over of mind, but it really happened.

Your sincere friend,

Mohamed

Anonymous said...

Emilie says: Oh, Goodness, Mohamed,

You still don't get it. I tried to show you and the others on this blog that every culture can be a "kill-culture" at one time in their history as the Muslim suicide bombers and the Mullahs that incite them are now considered a "kill-culture".

I tried to show you that defeated peoples like Native Americans and Palestinians gain nothing but their own annihilation when resisting a more powerful enemy with more sophisticated weapons. I tried to show you by my example of the atrocities committed at the Massacre at Wounded Knee that I feel your sense of injustice over what is going on in "Palestine".

I don't understand why you asked me if I am "supporting killing, bombs and wars?!! You became a terrorist?" I don't know why you would think that of me. I am just telling you that men have always had wars and always will. I can't blame the Israelis anymore than I blame the Americans who took over the land of my ancestors. It might not be fair in your eyes or mine, but that is what the history has been; land is taken and fought for, and there are winners and there are losers.

Look what is happening in Iraq; some Sunni neighborhoods are taken over by Shiites and vice-versa in bloody battles. Why don't you care as much about what Muslims do to each other in Iraq as you do about what you say Israelis may be doing to the Palestinians?

You said that "Israel has no borders", then you turn around and quote Resolution 181 and tell me that it did establish a Jewish state with borders and also set borders for the Palestinian state. So then I guess each state wants to defend its borders and both are guaranteed their right to exist and they should coexist peaceably. However, Palestinians only hurt themselves when they continue to irritate Israel like mosquitos irritate a giant. The giant will keep slapping at the mosquitos. If the Palestinians quit their futile aggressions that are destablizing the area, then Israel can concentrate on improving the quality of life for everyone in the area.

The Israelis are the ones with all the modern technologies as you stated; they turned deserts into fertile farmland, etc. They have nuclear power plants, etc. Like the ancient Romans and later Europeans they can control the resources like water, build improved roads, etc. everything that improves the quality of life for everyone once they have peace in the land. They are at the forefront of 21st century technology, and because of this they cannot be beat.

I have tried to tell you how we Native Americans feel an injustice as defeated peoples everywhere do, but now instead of fighting our conquerors in bloody battles we try to get broken treaties reinstated in the courts, and many times we win. The Natives here in the Northwest won back their fishing rights and titles to their ancient hunting and burial grounds. Since we stopped irritating the conqueror with bloody and futile skirmishes, we can peacefully coexist with them. With peace came a kinder American, one who eventually extended the rights stated in their Constitution, our Constitution, to all of us regardless of color or gender.

The Palestinians should apply to the international courts to address their grievances and work out a peace accord. I have told you that our former President Carter agrees that Israel has in some cases overstepped their borders by building settlements where they shouldn't be, and Israel has agreed to abandon some of them. President Carter and some Israeli leaders and others who have voiced that same opinion have been chastised. One Israeli leader was killed by one of his own people over the issue when it was thought he had capitulated too much.

You quote a portion of the UN charter that talks about "the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Memeber of the United Nations" and "all members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state", so it is as I stated, that Israel should keep to its agreed upon borders and each has the right to defend itself. However, the matter as it stands now is not going to get resolved the way the Palestinians are handling the situation. Maybe when the matter gets to the point where the UN or some other international body or Arab League, etc. see that it cannot go on any longer or the threat to others in the area is too great, maybe then it will be resolved. So that is my perspective on that issue.

As for the Muslim belief that the Prophet Mohammed was taken to Jerusalem by a mythical animal, that is strictly a matter of faith for you as is the divinity of the Prophet Jesus that Christians believe is God. However, Jesus was a Jew, he was born in that land that is so disputed, and I feel that the Muslim Prophet's trip to Jerusalem is an invented myth. Next to that Al-Aqsa mosque were two far more ancient temples built by Jewish Kings and destroyed by their enemies that are mentioned in the Old Testament and the New Testament which were written about hundreds if not thousands of years before the Prophet Mohammed even spoke of them. Because of these beliefs, I feel that it behooves the people of those three Abrahamic faiths to bring peace to the area so that Jews, Muslims and Christians can coexist and bring an end to the bloodshed there, at least until someone else claims the land.

All three faiths seem to be waiting for something that Muslims call the Mahdi, and that the Christians and Jews call the Messiah. Perhaps if everyone there came to Reason, there would be peace for a thousand years.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

Anonymous said...

Emilie says:

Barb,

It is OK for you to copy and paste my posts to your blog (I haven't looked at your blog yet) as long as you post it in its entirety and not twist it to promote your views on Christianity. I normally don't take part in religious blogs since I am an agnostic, and I have found that some Christians and Muslims are often closed-minded and not open to different independent views.

Snake Hunter Ralph,

Thank you for the compliment where you stated that in re-reading all comments here, you "enjoyed Emilie from Port Orchard the most". I thought you had included me in your earlier post where you mentioned "long boring convoluted fuzzy thinking".

I usually try to think things out and state my opinions reasonably and clearly without muddling with statistics and quotes from resources. I don't allow myself to go on emotional tirades that are all over the place, and I don't try to make my points by using all caps and exclamation points. You can't convince anyone of anything by "yelling" at them online or putting words in their mouths.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

Christian Apologist said...

The Solution to the Palistinian-Israeli conflict.

History has shown that there are 2 modes for conflict resolution between 2 unequally matched foes such as we have with Isreal vs. Palastine.

1. The weaker of the two operates a geurilla war against the other constantly harrassing and annoying until the stronger opponent tires of it and capitulates to or anihilates the other.

2. The weaker of the two accepts the conquest until they make themselves strong enough to put up a real resistance.

If palistine insists on the first course of action as it is doing now and insists only on stopping once Isreal is destroyed then the only solution to the problem for Isreal would be to annihilate the Palistinians. If you think this can't happen you would be wrong. Human beings have shown time and time again throughout history a willingness to commit genocide. Humans of today are not significantly different than from ancient times. Thus we should be assured that if the Palastinians continue to insist on the annihilation of Isreal, the only one to be annihilated will be the palastinians.

Palastine must accept the gains they have gotten thus far from their gorrilla warfare. (the independence of gaza and west bank) and use peace to build up their strength.

Barb said...

Golly, C.A. I hope you aren't recommending that the Palastinians continue to war after gaining their strength? They should seek to be an enduring peaceable prosperous state with open borders and commerce between themselves and Israel. This could only happen if their radical elements would have peace for a goal --not revenge. they would have to embrace the ideal of "religious freedom" -something Muslims don't really embrace in their base philosophy because they do believe in theocracy and sharia law, as I understand it.

Anonymous said...

Emilie. Thank you for walking point on this one. I fear, however, that no matter how articulately you frame your argument, attempting to convince Mohamed is like whistling an aria to the deaf.

The sad thing is that Mohamed is some kind of law student. As an attorney, I know the old saw: "When the law is against you, argue the facts. When the facts are against you, argue the law."

Mohamed just ignores the facts and the law, plucking incomplete portions from each and weaving then into a web of sophistry that has convinced no one but himself. Hear that Mohamed? You have convinced no one. Perhaps there is something inherently wrong w/ your argument.

In any event one comment and and one question. Comment: THERE NEVER WAS ANY STATE OF PALESTINE IN RECORDED HISTORY. THE PALESTINIANS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN RULED BY OTHER NATIONS. GOT IT?
REMEMBER THAT RIGHT AFTER ISRAEL DECLARED ITSELF IN 1948, THE REMAINDER OF PALESTINIANS LANDS WERE SEIZED BY JORDAN AND SYRIA. IF YOU ARE EVER GOING TO MAKE ANY HEADWAY W? ANYONE, STOP REVISING HISTORY, MOHAMED.

Sorry about the caps, but I wanted to get your attention.

Now the question: Please comment on the death of Hezbollah leader Imad Moughniyah in Damacus on February 12, 2008.

Regards.

The Loop Garoo Kid

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Loop,

a) Mohamed will not discuss Imad.

b) Mohamed will discuss our Civil War, but Not that it Ended Slavery
Forever in our U.S. That we now have a Negro Nominee trying for President! That American Native Indians Now Have Sovereign Ownership of Billion Dollar Casinos!!! Oh my, big Sin!

c) Compare U.S. Progress in Law, to Shari'a Law Progress. (They still put women in Black Bags, whip
them in public, stone them! Still have "Honor Killings". Bahh! You muslims are such Pure, Sweet, Wonderful People, we dummys should
all copy you!

There Is No Visible Progress. None! We are told that we can expect 1,000 yrs of Peace, After Ahmadinejad's Ayatollah wins
the Big Nuclear War, and he brings back the 12th Imam. Crazy talk!

Sunni (al Queda) & Shia (Madhi Brigade) kill each other in Iraq;
If we leave before Iraq can Defend
Itself, IRAN will roll into IRAQ,
take over old Saddam's Oil Field!

War...War...Always War!

Hamas (Shia) and Fatah (Sunni) kill each other every day
in Israel/Palestine. Israel gives up GAZA Land to Hamas. Immediately
they set up Rockets To Kill Innocent Israeli! Kill Culture!

Mohamed says, What Kill-Culture?

Islam & Sharia wants "Peace", but
ONLY WHEN THE WORLD FACES MECCA!

Vladire (KGB) Putin helps IRAN with Nuclear. Peace is a Fantasy!

Let us get on with the WAR. Nobody Really Wants To Work For Peace. It's a Grand Muslim Lie! Only Silly Christians say, "Turn The Other Cheek". War Is 5,000 Year Old Continuum! Politicians Lie. The USA Troops will be in Iraq For At Least Another Decade. We bleed,
those people win!

Kill...Kill...Kill...That's It!
Is That Enough Truth For Today, Mr. Mohamed Fadly? A Sad Truth. reb
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

I Invite Mohamed Fadly To Read
& Comment On My February Post.

He Remains Silent. He stays safely
here, and only talks ONE THING.
PALESTINE.

He might be the Subject of Freedom
of Religion, and that troubles him.

Mohamed's True Religion Cannot Compete in an Open Forum, and views
other than Islam. If you don't Face
Mecca five times a day, your religion, your search for a Creator
is False. You must be a Dummy, or a
Dhimmi, or a Peaceful Buddhist or
Bahai, that shuns killing. Hmmm. reb

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

If USA Troops leave Iraq too soon, the Persians will quickly move into Southern Iraq, grab Saddam's Oil Reserves, Kuwaiti Oil Reserves,
kill the minority Sunni, then move next into Saudi Arabia, establish a Military Perimeter circling Mecca, and all Sunni will
fall like a ripe fig. A 'New' 21st Century Persian Empire!

Ahmadinejad knows, the "Madhi" is a 941 A.D. fanciful Myth!

And Mohamed Fadly worry about a
postage stamp of land, Palestine!

I suggest that you talk to an Older
Egyptian, that knows the History of
Land-Greed, Armies, and what Oil will buy. Weapons, Tanks, Planes, Missiles, and Nukes!

Josef Stalin said, "Religion is the
Opiate of the People". Hmmm.

Your friend, reb
_________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

On this Website we have "Truth"

Snake Hunters sez,

But not the 'Whole Truth'

We can always find a story of
Israeli killing 'women & children'...

And never does mohamed discuss the
rockets & mortars launched from the
Gaza Into Israel. reb
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

DHIMMI WATCH, EGYPTIAN STYLE
Feb 29, 2008

Good News! An Egyptian Woman was sentenced to three years in prison for putting her religion on her marriage certificate more than 20 years ago...has been released!

Isn't Freedom of Religion Wonderful? Shadia Nagui Ibrahim thinks it's a great blessing! reb

www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch
_________________________________
www.layonebenn.blogspot.com